NB. Vomitor

‘Evil Invaders IV’ organiser Hushy today fwded me the following statement by Brisbane band Vomitor:

The impetuosity of youth can lend itself to an over-zealous desire to shock and offend for what end up being all the wrong reasons. To be categorical we are not in any way, shape or form racist/fascist/Nazi in thinking or action.

Vomitor were scheduled to play the ‘extreme metal’ festival in Sydney on June 9 but appear to have been withdrawn from the line-up since I made reference to them in a previous post (since amended). I may return to the topic in a future post, but in the absence of any other infos, I think the band should now be taken at their word. Finally, in case there was any confusion on this point, I do not claim that Evil Invaders is a ‘racist’ event or that its organisers in any way support racism; my apologies if any material on my blog was given any other interpretation.

About @ndy

I live in Melbourne, Australia. I like anarchy. I don't like nazis. I enjoy eating pizza and drinking beer. I barrack for the greatest football team on Earth: Collingwood Magpies. The 2018 premiership's a cakewalk for the good old Collingwood.
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53 Responses to NB. Vomitor

  1. Pingback: National Socialist Black Metalhead Bumped Into Parliament (Heil Hitler! Heil !nataS) | slackbastard

  2. The Wolf says:

    What an utterly pathetic response.

  3. cheese cake blues says:

    in an ancient post (december 2, 2010) you said that vomitor did a blood and honor gig. does this mean they were inclined to support nazism but have grown out of it?
    stargazer is on the evil invaders bill, a band that did a split album with white supremacists arghoslent.
    as far as i know thrall, a band from hobart that has lived in japan, aren’t racist. the band members have had a lot to do with the indie art and music scene in hobart.

  4. Matty says:

    You also stated that my old band Shackles was a ‘closeted racist’ band. I’m still waiting for you to explain this allegation as you are so far off the mark I’m dying to know how you reached this conclusion.

  5. Gary says:

    You were on a white supremacist record label, so do the math. If you’re not racist, it might be worth cutting all connections with White Noise.

  6. Matty K says:

    Vomitor, you are cowards. It’s fun and games to align yourselves with a movement, but take a little pressure on an obscure blog and you’re running to apologise prostrate…? Why even give this tool the ego boost by responding?

    Weak as piss.

  7. @ndy says:

    Matty says (May 30, 2012 at 7:31 pm):

    You also stated that my old band Shackles was a ‘closeted racist’ band. I’m still waiting for you to explain this allegation as you are so far off the mark I’m dying to know how you reached this conclusion.

    Here’s what I wrote (July 25, 2010):

    Locally, neo-Nazi impresario Gareth Sansom appears to have packed up shop with ‘White Noise Productions’, or at least ended the pretence of being a non-fascist promoter, declaring that WNP is “a strictly not-for-profit initiative aimed only at promoting the cause of White Australian Nationalism” (neo-Nazism). The bands WNP now ‘promotes’ are the openly neo-Nazi Death’s Head, Fortress, Ravenous and Spear Of Longinus, and the moar closeted Adamus Exul, Gospel of the Horns, Lustration, Sanguinary Misanthropia, Shackles, Shrapnel, Urgrund and Vomitor. Sansom was interviewed in December last year by fellow neo-Nazi Taigen Gould — whose own political loyalties are evident in his email address: [email protected].

    Currently, Sansom/WNP is promoting the 2010 Ian Stuart Donaldson gig (September 25), neo-Nazi distro ’9 Percent Productions’, the ‘Eureka Youth League’ (Australia First’s attempt to reconstruct a ‘yoof’ wing under the guidance of the positively non-youthful Brendan Gidley), and of course Blood & Honour and the Southern Cross Hammerskins.

    Obviously, I take it as read that if a band agrees to join with an openly White supremacist promoter — in this case, White Noise / Jack/Gareth Sansom — then they’re sympathetic to such views. I used the term ‘moar closeted’ because of the bands on the WN roster, only the handful I listed are openly and unapologetically neo-Nazi.

  8. Matty says:

    A promoter hands us a gig (unbeknown to 50% of the band, as only myself and Ian would organize gigs) and we are supposed to background check the political and racial views of each promoter? How does that by default make the band as an entity ‘closet racist’, why not simply ‘ignorant’? My background is Hispanic/Italian, why would I ever suspect the promoter was a ‘Neo-Nazi’ if he didn’t bat an eye about me playing for them? We’ve never played to a crowd of ‘Neo Nazis’ and I assure you that if anyone of that nature turned up to one of our gigs nobody would really be interested in associating.

    An apology/retraction is owed by you. And please apply a little more logic in future before defaming people (you know, dig a little deeper by asking a band questions rather than attempting to be so black and white). Your words here have the capacity to spill out into the real world and alarmist, knee-jerk reaction do-gooders, are not something I nor my friends and family want to be privy to.

  9. Matty says:

    And Gary, we were never on a racist record label. You obviously haven’t even looked into which labels we released our music through, which leads me to believe that you’re just as ignorant as me and my fellow band mates were.

    Everyone, doesn’t it get lonely up on your high horse all the time? Nothing but empty accusations and bullshit information all being spewed forth for some self moral gratification.

  10. Michael Jackson says:

    StarGazer also happen to have been signed to a Japanese record label and much of their lyrical content & ethos is based on Eastern philosophy. These people are by no means racist in any way. Allegations made here have been contradictory & ill informed to say the least. Guilt by association is not a valid reason to make allegations against groups of people. It was also a tactic once used by people that you apparently are fighting against.

  11. @ndy says:

    Matty,

    How you run yr band –including which promoters you use and the basis upon which you do so — is entirely up to you, obviously.

    You claim to have been ignorant of the political nature of White Noise Productions.

    OK.

    I’ve obviously no idea if you were or not but I’ll assume good faith on your part. More specifically:

    My background is Hispanic/Italian, why would I ever suspect the promoter was a ‘Neo-Nazi’ if he didn’t bat an eye about me playing for them?

    OK. You don’t understand that having Hispanic or Italian ancestry is no barrier to espousing neo-Nazism? That there are now, and have been for many years, neo-Nazis of Italian and/or Hispanic descent? Seriously? My own understanding that White Noise is a neo-Nazi promoter is based on the propaganda it produces, not Jack/Gareth’s ability to tolerate the presence or support of people such as yourself.

    We’ve never played to a crowd of ‘Neo Nazis’ and I assure you that if anyone of that nature turned up to one of our gigs nobody would really be interested in associating.

    That’s a good thing. But do you agree that playing gigs arranged by a neo-Nazi promoter means you’re more likely to have such volk in the audience than if you played for a promoter uninterested in promoting racism and fascism?

    WN was officially est in January 2009. Previously, Sansom had organised gigs thru Lifeless Entertainment (including Hellraisers I and II). In December 2009, Jack/Gareth was i/viewed by fellow neo-Nazi Taigen Gould for metalobsession.net. Sansom hadn’t come outta the closet at that point. This happened at some point in early 2010; I became aware of his open espousal of neo-Nazism by February 2010, writing:

    A recent entrant into the field of heavy metal promotion is White Noise Productions, which maintains — at best — what might be termed an ambivalent approach to groups such as Blood & Honour. Thus WNP arranged for a brief tour Down Under by the fascist-sympathising Deströyer 666 in January 2010, is friends with the openly neo-Nazi band Ravenous, as well as B&H’s merchandising arm 9% Productions, and until recently (early 2010) proclaimed the promotion’s allegiance to ‘Blood & Honour’ and the network’s FREE! “Interactive Media Promotion’: like Panzerfaust‘s 2004 ‘Operation Schoolyard’ (albeit on a much tinier scale), an attempt to provide FREE! neo-Nazi propaganda to White yoof.

    The most recent Hellraiser (IV) took place in December 2011 at The Tote and *ed Iconic Vivisect, Order of Orias, Sanguinary Misanthropia, The Seaford Monster and headliners Perseverance (Sansom’s band). As in yr case, The Tote pleaded ignorance of White Noise.

    Note that WN’s several Myspace and Facebook pages (eg, http://www.myspace.com/whitenoiseaustralia) have been deleted over the intervening period, but there is a YouTube channel still in existence here. Note further that in 2010 they placed the following comment on a vid of the 2005 Cronulla riot (set to a ditty by Skrewdriver): “So fucking proud watching this video, remember this time very well. Thanks for the upload! White power!!!”

    (Btw Sansom’s band Perseverance is currently (May 2012) looking for a bass player.)

    I could go on but I won’t: point being, the political nature of a promotion or band is not given by a raised eyebrow but public statements and actions in support of a cause.

    PS. I’m more of a Beatles man myself…

  12. @ndy says:

    Michael Jackson (if that IS your real name),

    cheese cake blues wrote:

    “stargazer is on the evil invaders bill, a band that did a split album with white supremacists arghoslent.”

    This a factually-correct observation. StarGazer did indeed do a split w Arghoslent (in 2001 on the Hellflame label); Arghoslent are neo-Nazis.

    Why is it illegitimate to take note of this fact?

    What precisely are you complaining about?

  13. Lumpen says:

    @Matty:

    I’d make a couple of observations. The first is that you seem to be ascribing the removal of Vomitor from the bill to this blog, as well as a bunch of other things. I would say that these bands are responsible for their own actions. No evidence has been produced contrary to @ndy’s, which I think is pretty convincing.

    @ndy, on the other hand, has produced plenty of evidence. WNP outright stated they exist solely to support “white nationalism”! It is not unreasonable, therefore, to take their support of bands as part of that process. The bands are free to take this support as part of that project, and they volunteered to do so.

    Another observation (more speculation, really), is that it is also possible that neo-Nazis deliberately infiltrate other subcultures and use apolitical bands to give themselves credibility. They are on record as pursuing such a strategy. Any annoyance or anger would best be targeted at them if you reckon WNP were deceptive when signing up bands like Shackles, right? How do you reconcile them promoting your band up with their aim of promoting white nationalism? These aren’t rhetorical questions.

    In any case, Vomitor have said they deliberately associated with Nazi types in a bid for social transgression, and not out of ignorance. It was a successful mission and one with long-term, unintended consequences. They are trying to do the right thing by putting this participation into a context and openly disassociating themselves from it. So unless they do anything in the future, that’s about as much as can be done.

    As a side note, it’s kind of weird that having the same politics as an angry 1950s dad crossed with the Pope is socially transgressive.

    It seems likely that you were aware, at least on some level, and chose the path of least resistance. In any case, you are responsible for your own in/actions. It is a reasonable expectation that you know who you are playing with or are being promoted by. A proclamation of the good character of individuals involved is a poor argument against the evidence produced, as long as we are critiquing logic.

    Everyone, doesn’t it get lonely up on your high horse all the time? Nothing but empty accusations and bullshit information all being spewed forth for some self moral gratification.

    The air from the high horse is fresh and I can see further toward the horizon than someone writhing in the shit with a bunch of sadcases.

    @Michael Jackson:

    It was also a tactic once used by people that you apparently are fighting against.

    Ding ding ding!

  14. Matty says:

    Andy, WHY is it so hard you to retract your incorrect statement?

    “Sansom hadn’t come outta the closet at that point. This happened at some point in early 2010; I became aware of his open espousal of neo-Nazism by February 2010”

    Shackles broke up in 2009. Case closed.

    Lumpen, “The first is that you seem to be ascribing the removal of Vomitor from the bill to this blog, as well as a bunch of other things. I would say that these bands are responsible for their own actions. No evidence has been produced contrary to @ndy’s, which I think is pretty convincing.”

    You are very mistaken. I support Vomitor 100% and have done so for many years and will continue to do so. The coolest thing to have come out of this is the fact that they will now play a night earlier, so thank you and all your chumps for that accomplishment at least.

    “It seems likely that you were aware, at least on some level, and chose the path of least resistance. In any case, you are responsible for your own in/actions. It is a reasonable expectation that you know who you are playing with or are being promoted by. A proclamation of the good character of individuals involved is a poor argument against the evidence produced, as long as we are critiquing logic.”

    As stated above, this promoter only came out of the closet in 2010. The band had parted ways before then. Your question is redundant. When you remove that accusation, you got nada, zilch, zero.

    Again, you owe an apology or retraction of some sort. Why is this so hard for you? Are you being intentionally stubborn?

    It is hilarious the fantasy you’ve all created. National Socialists covertly recruiting for members at Metal gigs in Australia? I’m sure the long haired, alcoholic, bong smokin’, body odor sharing headbanger is exactly what Adolf Hitler had envisioned for a superior race.

    “The air from the high horse is fresh and I can see further toward the horizon than someone writhing in the shit with a bunch of sadcases.”

    Thanks for more of your passive judgements. Don’t get too dizzy with all that air.

  15. Michael Jackson says:

    Whilst factual the connotations implied by bringing up this release are not accurate. If we look hard enough I’m sure we would all be guilty of crossing paths within work, study or leisure at some stage with persons who’s political views do not agree with our own, even if unbeknownst at the time.
    Luckily we live in a country where everyone is free to express their political & religious views no matter how much people may disagree with the other’s stance this can not be denied and should not be crushed. Sadly those of right wing orientation have as much right to speak their mind as you do even if their rhetoric is equally as worthless.

  16. @ndy says:

    @Michael Jackson:

    1.

    What do you believe are “the connotations implied by” StarGazer having released a split with a neo-Nazi band (Arghoslent)?

    Based on their having played a gig for Benson & Hedges, on the one hand, and now having issued a statement denouncing racism, fascism and neo-Nazism, on the other hand, ‘cheese cake blues’ posed the question of Vomitor:

    “does this mean they were inclined to support nazism but have grown out of it?”

    That’s a very reasonable question to ask.

    It’s also reasonable to pose the same question of StarGazer. That is, ‘given your willingness to release an album with a group of neo-Nazis, do you support neo-Nazism?’

    I’ve no idea what the band’s attitude is, but they were evidently happy to actively collaborate with neo-Nazis at one stage in their career; are they still?

    I dunno.

    I dunno if anybody really cares all that much either and I’m not aware of anybody having criticised the band for releasing the split on these grounds (feel free to point me in the direction of someone who has). That merely drawing attention to this fact regarding the band’s back catalogue has engendered such a defensive response from you is slightly odd. Be that as it may…

    2.

    You’re failing to distinguish between having political disagreements with others and support for neo-Nazism. In addition, you do not explain how the unremarkable fact that people have different political opinions relates to the decision by StarGazer to release a split with Arghoslent.

    3.

    It can easily be denied that Australia is a country in which what’s termed ‘free speech’ is guaranteed by law simply because it’s not. In reality, there is no Constitutional guarantee of ‘free speech’; a fact which confuses some because they labour under the illusion that we live in another country called the United States. Unlike the US, whatever legal rights to ‘free speech’ Australian citizens have are merely implied rights.

    Secondly, I’ve not referred to freedom of speech once inre to StarGazer or Vomitor in the above. What I have done is made reference to the fact that a) StarGazer co-released an album with some neo-Nazis and b) Vomitor played a neo-Nazi gig. That is: what has ‘freedom of speech’ got to do with anything?

    Finally, there’s a difference between advocating ‘right-wing’ political positions and support for neo-Nazism, and you certainly don’t need to be ‘left-wing’ to think that racism and fascism is stoopid.

  17. @ndy says:

    @Matty:

    “Andy, WHY is it so hard [for] you to retract your incorrect statement?”

    That depends. I can’t retract the statement “Shackles is a ‘closeted racist’ band” because I never made it. What I wrote in July 2010 was that “the bands WNP now ‘promotes’ are the openly neo-Nazi Death’s Head, Fortress, Ravenous and Spear Of Longinus, and the moar closeted Adamus Exul, Gospel of the Horns, Lustration, Sanguinary Misanthropia, Shackles, Shrapnel, Urgrund and Vomitor”. This was correct at the time. That is, on the now-deleted WNP MySpace page, WNP nominated these bands as being the ones it promoted. The first four bands listed have never pretended to be anything other than neo-Nazi in political orientation; I described the remaining eight as ‘closeted’ because they did not, and yet were also simultaneously promoted by WNP. That said, I would be happy to add a note on the original post alerting readers to the fact that your band joined with WNP in ignorance of the fact that it was (or subsequently became) a neo-Nazi promotion and that it would be wrogn to assume that Shackles was a neo-Nazi band or promoted fascist or racist views. The only other point I will make in this context is that when I write that it was in February 2010 that “I became aware of [Sansom’s] open espousal of neo-Nazism” I mean that it was no later than this date (and probably earlier) that he stopped pretending otherwise inre WNP. In other words, while prior to this date I was aware that Sansom/WNP was neo-Nazi, he had not chosen to make this fact unequivocal. So, it was actually some time between October and December 2009 that WNP added B&H to its support base; privately, I’ve obviously got no idea when Gareth/Jack fell over, hit his head, got up, and decided that Hitler was in fact a Top Bloke.

  18. Old Grey Mare says:

    Let me just take a shit over your paranoid schizophrenic/ocd/asbergers neurosis auneurism: there is no sinister network of nazis looking to convert minions at metal gigs in Australia. They’d be laughed away, just like you – because you’re both groups of delusional nincompoops with personality disorders. You’ve been sucked into a home made cubby house gang trying to push obsolete, long-since failed politics.

    I love this uppity attitude where you’re basically screaming at someone: “Who are YOU to say you’re not a nazi if you’re hispanic, it was true that you played in a closeted racist band until we found out it was false! DUUUH!!”.

    I’ve seen this playing out in person enough to know that you types is all the same. Even [if] your perspective wasn’t totally warped, the fact is that unkempt bossy boots with chips on their shoulders can never be taken seriously or have any real impact. You’ve got your dick out at a funeral.

    I can see from the links to communist organisations here that you support mass murder, cultural destruction, enslavement, and a police state. Otherwise you wouldn’t have the links there. I mean, the communist party of australia released a split 7″ with china on venezuela records, with north korea being mentioned in the thanks list. Dear reader indeed!

    Anyway, carry on with the stalking, threats, myspace columbo detective work, and unfounded public slander that’s so clearly necessary to crack down on antisocial behaviour. er… what?

  19. @ndy says:

    Correction: mass murder, cultural destruction, enslavement, a police state AND A COLLINGWOOD PREMIERSHIP VICTORY IN 2012.

    PS. Asperger’s.
    PPS. Aneurysm.

  20. Old Grey Mare says:

    Craven drivel from a brainwashed turkey fucker. Yes, I made a couple of spelling mistakes. How about you admit your mistake(s) in publically accusing people of being nazis without checking, and apologise? The fact that you’re unable to do this speaks for itself. It’s not hard to imagine a situation where you drag the wrong person’s name through the mud, and someone like a potential employer sees it via google. Standing up for the working man, huh?

    Even though my post was full of really witty and biting insults, you could remove those and still have a perfectly sound withering criticism of you and your boring, inept janitor squad which you have ignored.

    Perhaps you should delete your links to communist groups and renou[n]ce your crass persuasion, out of respect to the millions who’ve been victimised. Enjoy the footy too, your pennies support gambling rackets and gang rape.

  21. @ndy says:

    Touché!

    Out of curiosity, who is the wrogn person you mention above? Further, why on God’s Green Earth would I want to censor yr incisive commentary?

    Yrs in football and mass murder,

    Andy.

  22. abstractblack says:

    @ndy,

    Why won’t you apologise for the millions of turkeys you have victimised?

  23. @ndy says:

    BECAUSE I HATE TURKEYS EVEN MORE THAN I HATE SPELLING MISTAKES: THAT’S WHY YOU TURKEY LOVER.

    Btw, I just love this uppity attitude where YOU are basically SCREAMING at someone: “Who are YOU to say you’re not going to apologise for dead turkeys if you’re Hungarian! It was true that you have Asperger’s until we found out it was false! DUUUH!”

    The defence rests.

  24. Old Grey Mare says:

    You’d like to censor it because it wasn’t approved by Stalin, but my point was that in addition to throwing some insults around I have also illustrated that you’re a complete joke in the eyes of any educated and well informed person (like me). No wonder you’re all about U2. I can see you idolising Bono – insufferable, sociopathic and sanctimonious, but at least he has made a success of himself.

    Teh roggen perons I’m referring to could include Shackles, Stargazer, and since you sling mud first and check facts later, probably anyone else mentioned on your blog. But hey, it’s necessary to protect society from some bedroom black metal dweebs and skinhead sausage fests held in stinky arse dive bars at any cost.

    Why is the abbreviation of your to yr endemic to hard-left dreck? Because that’s what it sounds like when you say it with your head up your arse, haaaaaaaaaaaa!

  25. Old Grey Mare says:

    Thanks for baring your soul there raggedy [A]ndy. It took courage to reveal yourself as an empty droid bereft of spiritual vis[i]on, doomed like [Sisyphus] to drag a load of shit around for nothing.

    Ok, I took a look around and it seems like you kind of apologised for spreading lies around, but in the most gutless way possible – not ‘I’m sorry’, but more like ‘Apologies would be made in the event that someone misinterpreted what I may or may not have alluded to’. You know exactly what you’re doing, and the menstrual shrilling of posters like Anna show exactly what yr rtrdd audience is like.

    With the keen research abilities shown in your manifesto of the Australian metal scene, perhaps you can find employment digging up secret fact’z for a Von Daniken doco.

  26. abstractblack says:

    @ndy,

    in an unspeakable act of Stalinist doublethink, you have decided not to use yr ability to censor comments thru moderation to actually print my question inre: victimised turkeys. Such acts of non-censorship only serve to make yr censorship all the more abhorrent, and highlight that Bono is worse than the fascists you claim to be fighting against.

  27. Matty says:

    That said, I would be happy to add a note on the original post alerting readers to the fact that your band joined with WNP in ignorance of the fact that it was (or subsequently became) a neo-Nazi promotion and that it would be wrogn to assume that Shackles was a neo-Nazi band or promoted fascist or racist views.

    Thank you so much. That’s very generous of you. The sad thing is though, that you seem almost upset that it’s not the case. All those who were quick to yell shit before are now nowhere to be heard from. Must be their day off…

    As for your other reply regarding the Fantifa (Fascist anti fascists), I’m not surprised that you don’t care for my opinion and I am certain that deep down inside you are aware of the violent and bullying nature of this group. Something tells me you are of the same ilk.

  28. daewoosausagesandwich says:

    To @ndy,

    My hair is bird and your comments are invalid.

  29. Bubbafett says:

    “I can’t retract the statement “Shackles is a ‘closeted racist’ band” because I never made it”

    “I described the remaining eight as ‘closeted’ because they did not, and yet were also simultaneously promoted by WNP”

  30. Bubbafett says:

    Oh, and why were you so quick to sever any ‘taint’ from Vomitor to Evil Invaders Festival? By your reasoning, Shackles MUST be Neo Nazis…sorry ‘closeted’ Neo Nazis since they play a show organized by a dodgy individual. So if EI are having ‘Nazis’ play it must be a boots and braces festival…

    Wouldn’t happen to be that you were set straight by some left-leaning individual pals of yours from Kromosom who, shock! horror! are also playing the said festival? That would have made things a little less black and white (pardon the pun) I guess…

  31. Derek's Cereal, Weet Derrix says:

    Old grey mare, you might not be a bad person but I’m sorry to say that you are a moron.

  32. Minesweeper says:

    Such a peculiar world we live in when accused “closet nazi” bands are branded as such by closet nazis…

  33. Pingback: antifa notes (june 5, 2012) | slackbastard

  34. Michael Jackson says:

    I never claimed that Australia had the constitutional freedom of speech, I’m not confused as to which country we are living in. I said that we currently live in a climate where we are free to express political & religious views without fear of persecution or imprisonment. However I do get the feeling that if you had your way we wouldn’t. I do not agree with racism or discrimination nor your witch hunting tactics, baiting & general trouble making. But these things all tend to come back & bite you in the ass in the end.

  35. Old Grey Mare says:

    Derek’s Crust Flakes – You may be a nice person, but quoting Mark Corrigan from Peep Show makes you sound like a bed wetter. Better scuttle off there. I’ll happily admit to being a moron. That would give me an excuse for bothering to castigate @ndy, who has defended his irresponsible and boorish transgressions with a spell check, a youtube vid, and the coup de gras… a sarcastic meme picture. Definitely the level of wit often seen in flatliners who are too emotionally stunted to give a simple apology.

    @ndy. Mate, here’s an epiphany for you. Since you’ve obviously read the text equivalent of several volumes’ worth of literature in the form of LOLcats, you should henceforth put that time to good use. Turn off the computer, get out of your hovel, and go read a book or two in the fresh air. Who knows, maybe you’ll end up as verbose and knowledgable as me, and able to promote your futile cause without coming off like an abrasive waste of space.

    I notice that you’ve quoted me on your Facebook page (out of context, clipping away the bits where I make you look stupid), and these posts seem to be more popular than the bland gulag gruel you’ve authored yourself. Abdul of the Australian Catholic University has gotten a bit hot under the collar with all the sexual perversion THEY are throwing around, however. Well, you’re going to have to get used to it in your line of work pal.

  36. @ndy says:

    @Matty:

    Thank you so much. That’s very generous of you. The sad thing is though, that you seem almost upset that it’s not the case. All those who were quick to yell shit before are now nowhere to be heard from. Must be their day off…

    Does almost upset mean not upset? If so, OK. Either way, you seem almost upset that I should bother to: a) publish yr comments; b) respond to them and/or; c) offer to correct the relevant post. Otherwise, I’m unsure who ‘all those’ are; presumably, you mean ‘Gary’ and/or ‘Lumpen’.

    As for your other reply regarding the Fantifa (Fascist anti fascists), I’m not surprised that you don’t care for my opinion and I am certain that deep down inside you are aware of the violent and bullying nature of this group. Something tells me you are of the same ilk.

    Maybe. Maybe not. But I reckon this discussion should proceed on the other thread.

    @daewoosausagesandwich:

    My apologies. I stand corrected.

    @Bubbafett:

    You obviously don’t understand my reasoning and are unfamiliar w the basic facts. Unless and until either the Festival organisers and/or members of Kromosom want to comment here, suffice it to say that, in response to emails I received from the former, several days after I published the relevant post I updated it to read that I didn’t want my comments on Vomitor to be misinterpreted as meaning that I believed Evil Invaders was a racist event (which is what some people apparently did); I subsequently removed both that update and any reference to Vomitor or Evil Invaders from the post altogether, and published this post instead, one in which Vomitor denounced racism, fascism and neo-Nazism. If Evil Invaders or Kromosom want to comment further on this they’re certainly free to do so. Alternatively, you could contact them yourself.

    *shrugs*

    @Minesweeper:

    @Michael Jackson:

    Yeah I know. Point being, many people are happy to throw around such terms without knowing what they mean. A further example: Australia, unlike the US, has laws regarding racial and religious vilification. Such laws are seldom used to target fascists or neo-Nazis (in fact, I know of no case where they have been), but their existence partly explains why B&H and the Hammerskins do not hold public events. Further, there are all sorts of legal and other restrictions (primarily economic) on speech, so to suggest that we’re all ‘free’ to say whatever we want to whoever we want wherever we want is simply incorrect. Further, you’ve not explained the relevance of yr observations on ‘free speech’ to the fact that a) StarGazer co-released an album with some neo-Nazis and b) Vomitor played a neo-Nazi gig.

    And yeah.

    I’m Der ewige Jude

  37. @ndy says:

    FTR:

    [NB. Matty of the band Shackles has stated (June 2012) that his band split in 2009, prior to WNP becoming openly neo-Nazi. That is, while Shackles was promoted by WNP, at the time the band had no knowledge of WNP’s political base or subsequent evolution into an unashamedly neo-Nazi propaganda unit.]

  38. Bubbafett says:

    “You obviously don’t understand my reasoning” – Yes, you are quite accurate with that assumption!
    Ha, I just find it VERY amusing that you wouldn’t give Shackles any form of compromise even after having been offered an explanation, but you are obliging when it comes to your comrades. Are you sure Yeap from Kromosom is telling you the truth? He really might be an undercover Nazi.
    PS – I have a ticket for this week’s Evil Invaders that I unfortunately cannot use. All yours Andy if you want it. I live a stone’s throw from your Anarkist ‘Stay Out’ cubby house on St Georges Rd so can drop it off for ya.

  39. @ndy says:

    *sigh*

    OK. The law of diminishing returns is obviously starting to kick in, so for the last time:

    Re Shackles: I acknowledged Matty’s comments, stated that I’d accept he was acting in good faith, and amended the relevant post. I’m still a prick as far as he’s concerned, but I hope one day to get over it.
    Re Kromosom: Yeap made one comment on my FB pg, which I assume you’ve read. I don’t think he’s an undercover Nazi but then again… well, it would explain his constantly telling me ‘You really should read Mein Kampf‘ (and about how it ‘really changed his life’). And when I’ve expressed surprise at his admonition (Yeap? Mein Kampf?) his worriedly and volubly proclaiming that he was ‘only joking’. He also goes to work in a Nazi uni…

    oh

    shit.

  40. Bubbafett says:

    Yes, you did amend the Shackles post, after acting like a smug… prick. Couldn’t find the bit where you say ‘sorry for my error and any problems it may have caused’.
    You still aren’t answering my question however. Why are you willing to smear bands (some who fully deserve the Nazi stigma, others are anything but) that you do not personally know for playing shows with dodgy bands, dodgy promoters, dodgy venues, but when it comes to people you know you are a little more ‘delicate’ towards? You obviously know Yeap, so any application of your usual theory goes out the window with him as he is anything but…
    I think it comes down to you being a hypocrite and coward. You take the easy option of attacking people you know nothing about and have never met, since that way nothing will ever come back to haunt you. If you were to try this shit on people you know you might have to reply with something more substantial than a witty meme.
    Oh well, that is my two cents worth. And you didn’t want my ticket Andy? I am more than serious, you are welcome to experience this for yourself.
    PS. Fuck the system.

  41. @ndy says:

    Uh-huh.

    In the meantime…

  42. Bubbafett says:

    Ha! How lame! You obviously don’t want to have a logical debate and won’t listen to anyone who doesn’t adhere to your point of view. I honestly thought you’d be a hardcore Mad Max-style warrior in rags fighting ‘The Man’, growing your own carrots and dating a womyn named ‘Earth Star’, but it turns out you’re just a nerd with [an] internet connection. Anyway, it’s been a blast Andy. Best of luck with your revolution.

  43. @ndy says:

    A few things.

    1.

    You’ve referred above to three bands relevant to the discussion: Thrall, Vomitor and Shackles.

    a) I’ve made no claims regarding the status of Thrall, instead publishing one comment referring to them as ‘neo-Nazi bogans’ and several pointing out there’s no evidence to support this claim. Otherwise, I’ve been in communication with a band member (who expressed the opinion that the commentary should remain) and written to Anna asking for clarification (to which I’ve not received a reply).

    b) On May 20 in a post re NSBM, I noted in passing that Vomitor was playing Evil Invaders. This was the third time I’d referred to the band. On the first occasion (July 25, 2010) I noted that they were being promoted by White Noise Productions; on December 11, 2010, in a post on the history of neo-Nazi reich ‘n’ roll Down Under, I wrote that the band had played (along w Deaths Head and Ravenous) a White Christmas B&H gig in Brisbane in December 2000 (I didn’t remark upon the fact that Rob also played in goofy nazi group Spear of Longinus).

    The band apparently denies this gig ever took place.

    Subsequently — and to cut a long story short — the band issued the statement above and I agreed (at Hushy’s request) to remove the previous reference to Evil Invaders and Vomitor and to publish this statement instead.

    c) I previously referred to the fact that Shackles had been promoted by White Noise Productions, a neo-Nazi promotion, and that as a result it was one of a number of bands that, while not openly espousing neo-Nazism, I stated could be considered as sympathetic to it. A few weeks ago, Matty of Shackles stated that the band had split in 2009 and prior to Sansom publicly declaring that WNP was a neo-Nazi promotion. I published a brief correction as a result.

    Feel free to list the other bands you think are relevant.

    2.

    I don’t know anybody who’s played in a neo-Nazi group, at a neo-Nazi gig, or released anything on a neo-Nazi label. (You say ‘dodgy’, I say ‘neo-Nazi’.)

    3.

    I’m not sure what Yeap’s got to do with anything. If you have some kind of issue with him, perhaps you could contact him on Facebook?

    4.

    I’ve engaged in many hundreds of discussions on my blog, on a wide range of topics, with a diverse range of people (including neo-Nazis), and to that end published over 16,000 comments, so it’s nonsense to suggest I’m opposed to having “a logical debate”.

    Whoever you are, you seem to be especially upset at my writing about neo-Nazism as it relates to a handful of local rock ‘n’ roll bands.

    I’m not sure why.

    *shrugs*

  44. None of your fucking business says:

    It’s left wing assholes like you who Hitler should of burnt with the Jews.

  45. @ndy says:

    That’s a pretty mean comment. Are you trying to make me cry?

    In any case, the Nazi regime may have culminated with the mass incineration of Jewish and other peoples, but it didn’t start there. In order to accomplish this atrocity, the party/state first had to eliminate its political opposition. At the Nuremburg Trials in 1945, the chief US prosecutor, Robert Jackson, provided an outline of the Nazi road to power. The text below is from his opening address:

    ===

    “The Nazi conspiracy, as we shall show, always contemplated not merely overcoming current opposition but exterminating elements which could not be reconciled with its philosophy of the state. It not only sought to establish the Nazi “new order” but to secure its sway, as Hitler predicted, “for a thousand years.” Nazis were never in doubt or disagreement as to what these dissident elements were. They were concisely described by one of them, Col. General von Fritsch, on December 11, 1938, in these words:

    “Shortly after the first war I came to the conclusion that we should have to be victorious in three battles if Germany were to become powerful again:

    1. The battle against the working class[.] Hitler has won this.
    2. Against the Catholic Church, perhaps better expressed against Ultramontanism [essentially, global power exercised by the Pope and the Vatican].
    3. Against the Jews.” (1947-PS).

    The warfare against these elements was continuous. The battle in Germany was but a practice skirmish for the worldwide drive against them. We have in point of geography and of time two groups of crimes against humanity — one within Germany before and during the war, the other in occupied territory during the war. But the two are not separated in Nazi planning. They are a continuous unfolding of the Nazi plan to exterminate peoples and institutions which might serve as a focus or instrument for overturning their “new world order” at any time. We consider these Crimes against Humanity in this address as manifestations of the one Nazi plan and discuss them according to General von Fritch’s classification.

    1. The Battle Against the Working Class

    When Hitler came to power, there were in Germany three groups of trade unions. The General German Trade Union Confederation (ADGB) with twenty-eight affiliated unions, and the General Independent Employees Confederation (AFA) with thirteen federated unions together numbered more than 4,500,000 members. The Christian Trade Union had over 1,250,000 members.

    The working people of Germany, like the working people of other nations, had little to gain personally by war. While labor is usually brought around to the support of the nation at war, labor by and large is a pacific, though by no means a pacifist force in the world. The working people of Germany had not forgotten in 1933 how heavy the yoke of the war lord can be. It was the workingmen who had joined the sailors and soldiers in the revolt of 1918 to end the First World War. The Nazis had neither forgiven nor forgotten. The Nazi program required that this part of the German population not only be stripped of power to resist diversion of its scanty comforts to armament, but also be wheedled or whipped into new and unheard of sacrifices as part of the Nazi war preparation. Labor must be cowed, and that meant its organizations and means of cohesion and defense must be destroyed.

    The purpose to regiment labor for the Nazi Party was avowed by Ley in a speech to workers on 2 May 1933, as follows:

    “You may say what else do you want, you have the absolute power. True we have the power, but we do not have the whole people, we do not have you workers 100%, and it is you whom we want; we will not let you be until you stand with us in complete, genuine acknowledgment.” (614-PS).

    The first Nazi attack was upon the two larger unions. On April 21, 1933 an order not even in the name of the Government, but of the Nazi Party was issued by the conspirator Robert Ley as “Chief of Staff of the political organization of the NSDAP,” applicable to the Trade Union Confederation and the Independent Employees Confederation. It directed seizure of their properties and arrest of their principal leaders. The party order directed party organs which we here denounce as criminal associations, the SA and SS “to be employed for the occupation of the trade union properties, and for the taking into custody of personalities who come into question.” And it directed the taking into “protective custody” of all chairmen and district secretaries of such unions and branch directors of the labor bank (392-PS).

    These orders were carried out on May 2, 1933. All funds of the labor unions, including pension and benefit funds, were seized. Union leaders were sent to concentration camps. A few days later, on May 10, 1933, Hitler appointed Ley leader of the German Labor Front (DEUTSCHE ARBEITSFRONT), which succeeded to the confiscated union funds. The German Labor Front, a Nazi controlled labor bureau, was set up under Ley to teach the Nazi philosophy to German workers and to weed out from industrial employment all who were backward in their lessons (1940-PS). “Factory Troops” were organized as an “ideological shock squad within the factory” (1817-PS). The Party order provided that “outside of the German Labor Front, no other organization (whether of workers or of employees) is to exist.” On June 24, 1933 the remaining Christian Trade Unions were seized pursuant to an order of the Nazi Party signed by Ley.

    On May 19, 1933, this time by government decree, it was provided that “trustees” of labor, appointed by Hitler, should regulate the conditions of all labor contracts, replacing the former process of collective bargaining (405- PS). On January 20, 1934 a decree “regulating national labor” introduced the fuehrer-principle into industrial relations. It provided that the owners of enterprises should be the “fuehrers” and the workers should be the followers. The enterpriser-fuehrers should “make decisions for employees and laborers in all matters concerning the enterprise” (1861- PS). It was by such bait that the great German industrialists were induced to support the Nazi cause, to their own ultimate ruin.

    Not only did the Nazis dominate and regiment German labor, but they forced the youth into the ranks of the laboring people they had thus led into chains. Under a compulsory labor service decree on June 26, 1935, young men and women between the ages of 18 and 25 were conscripted for labor (see 1654-PS). Thus was the purpose to subjugate German labor accomplished. In the words of Ley, this accomplishment consisted “in eliminating the association character of the trade union and employees’ associations, and in its place we have substituted the conception ’soldiers of work’.” The productive manpower of the German nation was in Nazi control. By these steps the defendants won the battle to liquidate labor unions as potential opposition and were enabled to impose upon the working class the burdens of preparing for aggressive warfare.

    Robert Ley, the field marshal of the battle against labor, answered our indictment with suicide. Apparently he knew no better answer.”

    ===

    Then as now, anarchists fought fascism:

    ===

    “In Germany the anarchist-syndicalist FAUD (Free Union of German Workers) had decided in 1932 to go underground once Hitler came to power and to work towards a general strike. This proved impossible, the FAUD was far too small to do so on its own and of course once Hitler came to power its numbers were further decimated as many members were either arrested or forced to flee into exile. However with the help of Dutch anarchists they did succeed in setting up a FAUD secretariat in exile in Amsterdam.

    Inside Germany FAUD members like labourer Franz Bunget and unemployed steelworker Julius Nolden attempted to continue operating underground. Both were to be arrested by the Gestapo. However with others they succeeded in getting an underground network going that smuggled people out of Germany and smuggled anti-Nazi pamphlets in, often with strange titles to mislead the fascist authorities.

    Court records show that one pamphlet went under the title of ‘Eat German fruit and stay healthy’ and became “so popular among miners that they used to greet each other with: ‘Have you eaten German fruit as well?’” The outbreak of the Spanish Revolution in 1936 saw an underground network that raised money for the Spanish anarchists and their fight against fascism and recruited technicians to go to Spain and provide needed expertise.

    In December of 1936 however the Gestapo managed to discover the first of these groups and in raids then and in 1937 arrested 89 male and female members of this anarchist underground. In early 1938 these comrades were charged with “preparing acts of high treason”. All but six were convicted.

    Julius Nolden was ‘lucky’ and spent the next 8 years in Luttringhausen prison until the arrival of the ‘allies’ in April of 1945. Others were not so ‘lucky’ and were murdered in prison. Lathe operator, Emil Mahnert was thrown out of a window, bricklayer, Wilhelm Schmitz, died in “unexplained circumstances”, Ernst Holtznagel was sent to a military punishment battalion where he died, Michael Delissen was beaten to death by the Gestapo in December 1936 and Anton Rosinke was murdered in February 1937.”

    ===

  46. Bender says:

    ^^
    Didn’t read LOL

  47. sweetleef says:

    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

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