- Update : Ashley Towns ~versus~ Andrew Sanders (November 16, 2009), especially Lumpen’s comment on Sanders as the originator of the “Love” virus/worm in 2000.
RRTAA!
Andrew Sanders is an odd fellow.
In December 2005, Andrew came to the attention of anti-racist activists, and subsequently state authorities, after authoring a website titled Fightback. (Funnily enough, that site is now home to a Trotskyist groupuscule.) The site gave detailed instructions on how to prepare for the second Cronulla civil uprising — one scheduled, in the minds of the perhaps few dozen phantasists who masturbated online over its commencement, for the following weekend. Arrested by police / ZOG agents in the days following the Cronulla pogrom / civil uprising, Andrew was charged with a number of offences. Trial commenced in October 2006, and Andrew was eventually exonerated.
As a white supremacist, Sanders had form, joining the Stormfront site in October 2003 as ‘blue-eyed-devil’ and again in May 2004, when he employed the pseudonym ‘blue8eyed8devil’. (For those of you joining us late, the number ‘8’ is used by white supremacists to represent ‘H’, the eighth letter of the alphabet. ’88’ is ‘HH’, where ‘HH’ = ‘Heil Hitler’.) The main point of agreement uniting the various racist and fascist crackpots on SF is their hatred of Jews — a message to be “forged in titanium” according to the Amerikkkans who administer the site — and Sanders was no exception:
At risk of getting flamed and offending people, I must say, very few White Nationalists I know would be moved by the American dead during this farcical ‘war on terror’ as we all see them as futile masses working for ZOG. Whilst there is some innocence in ignorance, following their Zionist overlords without question to their death is their own choice.
They did not die for us, they did not die for the White Cause, they died for greater Israel. I can not mourn their deaths or I will be, as most judaeic [sic] brainwashed folk, a hypocrit [sic] blinded by hollywood inspired patriotism. ~ January 30, 2005
And just in case anybody missed it the first time around:
The jewish power base is in America like a cancer, I do not think in my lifetime or as long as my Race exists we will see a White America. ~ February 1, 2005
At one point, Sanders even expressed interest in attending a meeting of ‘Klub Naziya’, arranged by Australia’s Most Loved Neo-Nazi, Dävid Palmer. As for his website, posing as an interested — to be precise: enraptured — third party, Sanders had this to say (prior to his arrest):
A fantastic organisation has been setup for this express purpose, a combination of various groups I believe, they can be found at [Fightback] … they featured on the front page of the news papers today, I recommend you read through their guerilla handbook of this Sunday[‘]s protests, some awesome -awesome- ideas there.
We need to stand united this Sunday, every one of you needs to attend, no excuses should be made as no excuses will be tolerated when the stormfront breaks.
So one day when your kids ask “Where were you when the revolution started daddy?” you can reply, “In the vanguard.” ~ December 17, 2005
Eerily prophetic words, as just a few days later Sanders was indeed in the vanguard: the police vanguard.
“STALIN IS COOL HAHAHA I R B JEWISH FJEER MEH!”
Prior to his Cronulla-inspired shenanigans, Sanders spent some time on Stormfront outlining his views.
My biggest problem with most self declared White Nationalists is the fact they have bollocks like mice attached to them. Most will not stand up in public because that would be suicide, but alot [sic] draw the line when in a semi-closed group also.
Your problem from this post and from your other post really sounds as though it could be resolved if you were to network and get together a select group of friends. I don’t mean start a cult or group of psychotic whites spouting hail [sic] hitler at every given opportunity as that severely ruins our image.
Just a clean cut group of White youths who influence the world around them to match their political views and agendas.
Remember, to all those reading this post, you don’t see Jews marching through Time Square screaming “STALIN IS COOL HAHAHA I R B JEWISH FJEER MEH!”. Neither should we. ~ May 15, 2004
Sanders is a few stubbies short of a six-pack, obviously, but the above does conform to his subsequent behaviour, not only with regards Fightback, but also the Tunnel Rats and most recently ‘The Law Society of the University of Western Sydney’.
There are many great ideas in this thread, there are some which would be twisted into our backs as knives too. The ultimate fact is, we cannot change the world. The jews have spent the last three thousands [sic] years infiltrating us, they have spent since the begining [sic] of the presses taking control of them and other niche industries (gold, diamonds, power in general).
What you men and I do in our lifetimes will never counter that, at risk of a reich to match the past reichs, a revolution. Revolutions however are not easy wins, and once you lose you can expect your countries and people to be opressed [sic] with severe dogma from the still controlled media.
The only solution is to inhabit someplace [sic] small and logistically sound (like Tasmania), begin swinging votes by making circumcision illegal (bam, there goes the jewish population), which isn’t a hard thing as most parents and doctors refuse to do it anymore as mutilating one’s children serves no purpose. It’s 2005, we can all wash our genitals quite well now.
Secondly you make kosher and hallal [sic] slaughter and meat illegal due to the fact it is cruel to animals. Already we’ve got the majority of voters on side as these are concientious [sic] moral issues most people agree with. You could even go as far as swinging with the advanced scientific beliefs of the third reich of a vegetarian state, which was a very strong idea put forth by Mr H…
[Sanders then proceeds to expound on The Wonders of Tasmania.]
Once the three legislative changes above have been made you will have a relatively core group of society remaining. A coup d’etat wouldn’t be neccesary, with 10,000 people alone assisting the masses in accepting our idea the social economic change itself would be like starting a boulder rolling down a hill to freedom. ~ February 2, 2005
Uh-huh. To create the perfect White Nation, just follow this simple recipe:
1) Move to Tasmania.
2) With 10,000 others, assist the masses in understanding and accepting the White Nationalist cause.
3) Take over the Government.
4) Introduce legislation outlawing male circumcision, kosher and halal butchering.
5) Watch the boulder rolling down the hill to freedom.
And voilà!
Coincidentally, when Sanders received bail, one of the conditions for his release was that his mother keep him on a very short leash while in public.
But hey, Andrew, what about Jude? As it happens, in his first post on SF, Sanders made available to the melanin-deficient world a mighty -mighty- manifesto. After advising against the use of the term ‘Jewnited States of America’, Andrew writes:
…The Jude organises himself through his church, through his social gatherings. Whilst their churches are unlike ours, they discuss matters directly affecting their people.
We on the other hand, as white nationalists, the men and women in the vanguard of our race, rattle chains, and throw stones at Israeli tanks, al [sic] la Palestinians.
This is NOT the way to win a war.
The implications in the post about the ADL that it was from a ‘goyyim’ [sic] defeated the purpose of the post and will bring their attention to the frame-up and is contra our efforts.
I live in Sydney, Australia. We too are infested with yids in power who are inbreeding our civilisation with asians and arabs in an attempt to water out our blood and prevent us from rising against tyranny.
Flyers are relatively pointless as they are merely white nationalists rattling chains and whinging. They will not help us.
The end game is approaching rapidly, coming closer every year, yet we let ourselves fall into this decay and disrepair as a species, and I’m sure that our overseers are quite pleased with this.
YOU MUST MAKE A CHOICE: — As a white nationalist you have two choices, you can either organise and strike clandestinely, or you can follow the path of destruction that many do, scream the odd ‘fsck the system’, rattle chains, and throw stones at tanks.
Our weakness is our lack of central communication, our lack of recruiting tactics, our lack of organisation and working as a team. We are seperated [sic]. Divided we are bound to fall.
We need SOLIDARITY, we need UNITY, we need each other.
What I ask of you men and women is that you simply think to yourselves for a moment, who do you know around you who shares your ideals? Your views? Your beliefs? Are they awakened to the cause that you are persuing [sic]? And if so, why aren’t you discussing or organising things with them specifically?
If you attend a church, is it one with a pulpit prostitute in the position of attention, or are they perhaps sympathisers to our cause?
If you attend a social group of any kind, do you know people there who are fed up with the persecution of our fellow men?
Why are you not contacting these people? Just a simple tap on the elbow, a wink, and a “I know how you feel.” will mean the world to most of us at any given time, to know there is that circle of brotherhood, or support amongst our own kind.
Whilst the governments of the world supress us, the ever present undereducated white nationalist (aka, red neck, skin head, what not) who are primarily our foot soldiers are defeating our entire purpose. What point is infantry when your officers are too busy sitting on their arses in an office killing time waiting for their next pay cheque?
We are too comfortable, and in comfort one finds laziness and lack of motivation. Because we are not directly being hurt, more often than not alot [sic] of us don’t SEE, don’t FEEL the damage that is being done to us.
I would like to make a motion, provided the administrators of this board are willing to allow it, that we organise a segment of this forum specifically to orchestrate communications between white nationalists. Whilst it is difficult to avoid detection of governmental bodies who will use the guise of us being ‘racists’ and ‘terrorists’ and attempt to track us down and find our dossiers, it is the only thing we have left.
I recommend that you do go to work and speak to fellow sympathisers for our cause, I suggest at church or at your social groups you speak to the leaders who have similar views and see how you can affect the thought pattern of millions of warriors amongst us who have yet to open their eyes to the truth.
Awaken those around you. If only 5,000 of us across the world were to speak with one person per day and let them KNOW that we are here, that it is okay to speak freely, and that we need to organise, in a week alone we would have 160,000 in one WEEK who are rallying to our cause.
We MUST unite, or we must accept our fate and fade away under the boot of the Jude. The choice, my brothers and sisters, is up to you. Do you want to be a part of the problem, or a part of the solution?
On reading this post, if you haven’t yet thought of one person you can speak with, I suggest you move to another country. I welcome you to come to Australia, and will give you any assistance you need, god only knows we need the numbers here.
Once you have your small networth [sic] of brethren together, register a hotmail account or another pseudo-anonymous web based email account and contact me via: –
Under the proviso we can get a working network of activists together I welcome the communication and will quite glady [sic] assist in orchestrating movements that will assist our cause.
If you are unable to get a single person on side with you, or do the little required to create some unity amongst us, then you may as well forget calling yourself a white nationalist and accept your fate under the boot of the Zionist occupational government of choice in the area you live.
Yours in brotherhood,
The Blue Eyed Devil. ~ October 27, 2003
A subsequent posting (October 30, 2003) from The Blue Eyed Tasmanian Devil (“Heil Hitler!”) reports progress on the above, and expresses his hope that “we can open up an entire new realm and hopefully manage to bring alot [sic] of groups that really damage our image into the frame with more avante gard [sic] WN cells”.
Almost five years later, it doesn’t appear that Sanders has given up on his efforts to confront The Yids in Power. Carefully avoiding the potentially damaging sight of Nazi uniform fetishists, and substituting this image for one of “a clean cut group of White youths who influence the world around them to match their political views and agendas” has taken a rather peculiar turn, however, with his establishment of something calling itself ‘The Law Society of the University of Western Sydney’.
So, what’s ‘The Law Society of the University of Western Sydney’? Apart from a figment of Sander’s imagination, the Society has a website; funnily enough, a Google search for it — lawsociety.org.au — results in not only a link to the Society but Andrew’s previous club, The Tunnel Rats. In any case, according to Andrew:
The Law Society of the University of Western Sydney was constituted on the 11th of September, 2007 at the Marsden Building (EZ) of Rydalmere campus. Operating across all campuses it’s main location of commencement, Rydalmere, draws upon a history dating back to the first settlement of the Rose Hill region by colonial British settlers on land once owned by the Darug nation.
From these eclectic roots the Law Society has taken into account its social responsibilities to the prestige of its forbearers [sic] and has sought to provide niche assistance in an area where a void has formed in relation to procedural aid, advocacy and assistance to those unable to obtain legal assistance through other means.
Building strong ties and relationships with the NSW Law Society, the Young Lawyers Association and Blacktown and Parramatta councils, the Law Society of the University of Western Sydney commenced an immediate rollout servicing all UWS campuses and communities nearby.
The Society began as a small project, when the current president who had been working and studying at the University of Western Sydney since 1999 found himself in a position where he was helping many students, staff and other community members with often minor procedural matters and directing them to already available resources that the general populace may not know is in place. In late 2005 due to an inability to assist all of the people seeking assistance he turned to the University to examine the apparatus in place to provide support in these regards…
That final sentence is a superb turn of phrase by Sanders: late 2005 being, of course, the beginnings of his troubles with ZOG.
The rest is simply badly-worded phantasy.
And who knows what other monkey business Andrew has been up to?
@ndy, while I appreciate your need to quote some pertinent batshit to establish the character of our mark, I had to scoop my eyeballs out of my coffee cup to get to the end of this one. This mug is pedal-to-the-metal, getting speeding tickets every other mile on the road to nowhere.
Sanders has this pattern of trying to insinuate himself into positions of responsibility and works well and truly overtime trying to make himself look important. Problem is, he’s got the IQ of a housefly and thinks everyone else is stoopider than him. I can just see him chuckling ‘Noe wun will evah no! heheheheheh’ when he’s writing legal threat letters filled with case law citations (as if mere mortals can’t search the AUSTLII database) and signed with PROFOUNDLY unlikely legalish honorifics and fatally, conflations between his invented ‘law society’ and the University of Western Sydney- the latter of which I think will prove to be mightily unpopular with the wheels at UWS.
In the parlance of 4chan, FAIL.
Again.
That boy needs therapy!
Lol Mount Druitt Police Station, or should i say Po ice Sta ion.
That’s my stomping grounds, never seen this scumbag around though. Given the ethnic make up of my hometown and those surrounding, not to mention the anger and stature of many of the local kids, and also his (laughable) own, it’s probably better for him that he stays out of the public eye a little.
His hitler hair do is making me feel ill hehe. He is the neo-emo-hitler.
lots of juicy stuff here, but how do you know the accounts are all the same person? u guys admins on it and its a honeypot for whackos?
That boy needs therapy…
i’m afraid expulsion’s the only answer, it’s the opinion of the entire staff that dexter’s criminally insane
crazy as a coconut
seems he’s given up the search for comparable intellect here and is now looking offplanet for like minds…
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/view_profile.php?userid=699504
Profile: Andrew Sanders
Personal background
I was born into a very technologically oriented family, and was modem educated to a degree. I am currently studying at the University of Western Sydney, doing a masters in chaos and complexity after achieving advanced standing of acceptance due to the fact that most of my education isn’t institutionally based, which doesn’t go down too well in our bureaucratic society.
My interests are in cybernetics, systemic enhancement and transhumanistic research. My beliefs are that man’s future is at this point relatively in his own hands, our development is impeded by our own hands and therefore justly our development should be accelerated by our own hands.
Thoughts about SETI and SETI@home
I hope that we are not alone in this universe, and that we are not the most advanced organism by far, it’d be rather depressing to think that man is the most intellectually empowered organism in the universe.
I believe that limited transmissions should be made by us into space, reflective of the fact that a quasi-intelligent group of monkeys exist here and that we are open for peaceful communication. However, I do believe that avoiding overly appearing to be peaceful if not almost a hippie like civilisation would be (for obvious reasons) ignorant.
Signification that we have highly distinct races should be encouraged so that if the messages are ever recieved they can appreciate that we obviously have many cultural aspects and segmented development projects that would be or had been occuring.
Demonstrating that we are a species which shows more selectivity in the genetic stability and breeding of our dogs, cattle and horses than of our own children should be avoided.
We have to understand that any organism of non-terran origin that recieved these transmissions would obviously be of our intelligence or above to be able to comprehend the transmissions, in which case there is a high chance that considering our intelligence would be the minimum retainability factor, and the infinite extrapolation of potential for their intelligence factor by comparison the chances are they will be much more advanced.
Due to them being of higher advancement they will most likely have no conception of political correctness or many stereotypical terran standards of thought and logic processing that while practical emotionally are scientifically an inept practise which is leading to the decelleration of the developmental world as a whole.
I believe that the SETI project as a whole is defunct due to the fact that there is no sensationalistic media whoring or fast-buck making capabilities in it, and therefore the terran population will not give it as much support as they would sex aid research, or spend each year on al[?]
but he shows his true colours here
Demonstrating that we are a species which shows more selectivity in the genetic stability and breeding of our dogs, cattle and horses than of our own children should be avoided.
ah yes the master race thing again
…sweet jesus…
http://www.schwarzrose.org/
Holy lithium, Batman.
He’s the emo L. Ron Hubbard!
He writes a bit like L Ron Buzzard, too. Pure phantasy.
…could he be a secret Scientologist…? A.S.S. seems to admire authority structures and tries to glom on by any means possible, usually through some side door or shortcut.
i dun get it, none of these pages work? where r u guys finding this stuff? i lol’d
web archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030301140346/http://www.schwarzrose.org/
Strange boy …
Well, I just returned from Hobart and the 2008 ALSA Conference (Australasian Law Students Association) where I got pissed with the REAL President of the REAL University of Western Sydney Law Society. Those guys blitzed the Mooting this year though we at UTS managed to whip their arses on the tennis court (where it counts).
Sanders is about to have an interesting few weeks.
thanks andy. darp ur thinking of the law student association two different things im a member of the law society but not the lsa one focuses on alsa and networking the other does a lot of tie ins with legal aid and just generally points lost causes in the right direction. im not a fan of our current president tho by any means so something tells me this info will come in handy next elections 😉 consider ur site bookmarked for life 😛
Nicki, Val, Andrew …whichever deluded fuckstick is writing here.
The ‘law society of UWS’ does not exist. It is a registered domain name only and a figment of Andrew Sanders’ incredibly warped imagination. Now, Andrew does have a UWS email …so he would be enrolled in that uni doing SOMETHING. If it IS a law degree then he has well and truly shat in his own nest and will more than likely be hauled before whatever disciplinary board that UWS has. Even if he isn’t doing law, he will be busted severely for misusing his official UWS communication tool. If he is doing law, upon the LPAB finding out about this crap, I would rate his chances of admission as less than zero. Some people manage to scrape through with neg driving charges, minor assault, drink driving (low range) BUT …where anything related to larceny or fraud shows up and it can be proven (and in this case we have an electronic trail that Hansel & Gretel wouldn’t have any trouble following) …then you just don’t become a lawyer, sorry.
Well ..I’m not sorry actually. Sanders seems like a severely unstable guy with a massive inferiority complex.
I’d be curious to sit down with the guy and shoot the breeze though. Hey, I’m no big fan of Scientology and I don’t mind a bit of UrbanEx. Hell, I even listen to the Cure! I’m sure Andrew and I could chat about quite a few things.
Ok.
I have just had a look over some of the correspondence Sanders has been shooting out from his uni email account purporting to be the president of the “Law Soc of UWS”. Wow …this bloke is completely bonkers (and scared shitless). Now, whilst I am currently doing my College of Law PLT stuff and am a few months off graduating I will not ‘do a Sanders’ and make sweeping statements as to whether or not what he has done is strictly speaking ‘illegal’. Why? Because I’m not a fucking lawyer yet and have no illusions about that. What I will say in terms of the law is that the guy clearly has no effing idea of how the law on assault actually works in the real world (or on the net for that matter). As soon as he referenced shit like Barton v Armstrong and Fagan, it becomes fairly obvious that you’re dealing with someone struggling through a first year Crim textbook (and even then he twisted himself in knots and made about as much sense as a ventriloquist eating creamed honey).
As regards how Sanders tries to represent himself as someone who “isn’t like ..giving real advice ..and isn’t like acting for real ..like ..for anyone ..like ..err doesn’t have a client ..but is acting as counsel for someone ..and yeah like totally ..yeah like please don’t go to the police because page 17 of Cavendish Crim Essentials quotes Rozsa v Samuels as saying there like ..would be no err case.”
Maaaaaaaaaaaan. What does the law do Andrew? It looks to substance not to form and despite any verbal tapdancing, it is patently clear that you are trying to pass yourself off as a practising lawyer. Worse still, this guy has used his uni email address to shoot this stuff off, he has listed the Faculty of Law, the University in his ‘official’ signature. In one email he even requests that all snail mail be forwarded to him VIA the Faculty of Law.
Mate ..this bloke is flying downhill on a BMX with no brakes. The crash will not be pretty.
Errr …hang on a tic
Sanders’ CV:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030306033919/www.schwarzrose.org/cv.html
Employment: CW&F, University of Western Sydney.
Err …CW&F is Capital Works and Facilities- the uni janitors?
Do they give uni cleaners email addresses these days?
I guess it wouldn’t be entirely unheard of seeing as uni bureaucracies like to use them as the sole means of communication with staff and students.
IS he just a cleaner in the law school with Good Will Hunting style delusions?
Oh man …that would be hilarious …a cleaner creating a fake law society then sending people threatening legal letters which imply that they shouldn’t take their bomb threats to the police.
Fucking hell …and I thought the ALSA conference was a drama fest.
1.
Geez, a computer for a 1 year old in 1981? What was it, an Atari, Commodore 64 or an errr Apple? lmao.
2.
The UWS Law society is a legitimate branch of the UWS however, Sanders Law society of UWS is not a legitimate branch. The legitimate UWS law society is hosted by the UWS servers. http://www.uws.edu.au is where you will find the legitimate law society which Sanders is not the President of.
Sanders law society http://www.lawsociety.org.au is not a legitimate site. He is using the UWS banner at the top of this site and he is also calling himself the President. He has also added an external reference to wikipedia on the UWS school of law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UWS_School_of_Law to his website http://www.lawsociety.org.au/about.html All of this information has been relayed to the UWS brass.
Andrew Sanders – I AM DA LAW!
I know the guy personally, albeit only for about four months now. He seems like a changed man, and has proved to be a good friend until this point. I am not a white supremacist – I’m about as accepting as anyone can be of other cultures and races – and we’ve never once had an argument about any of this stuff.
He has been honest with me about the arrest, and about his involvement in these organisations. He’s also been honest with me about the changes he’s been trying to make within himself.
Personally I am all for him going about starting his new life. I know many of you will disagree with me, but everyone deserves a second chance. Feel free to flame me, I don’t mind.
I’m with you- Sanders should be starting a new life. Frauding up a ‘law society,’ purporting to be the president of the same and making legal threats as though he were a licenced legal practitioner doesn’t look like the way forward to me, how about you?
Sanders can find sympathy between shit and syphilis in the OED.
darp im not a sock n if what ur goin on about is true then im guessin im in his black book anyway. the law society at uws has like 120 members across all campuses if its imaginary then its a shared delusion; the law student association is entirely different. one is very right wing liberal (lsauws) the other is very centrist (uwsls) and needless to say both organisations dont share many members. if u got a beef with the president you dont attack an entire group of ppl and wreck it for everyone you do it with smarts. i think next election ill be playin politix n i dont think an it policy breach will do anything more than appear seedy but thanks for the suggestion ay 😉
120 members across all campuses? Pppfffffft.
As for attacking this ‘group’ and wrecking it (it isn’t hard to get names and student numbers of people to join your special new ‘group’) …well, when you look at what the ‘pres’ is doing in trying to pass himself off as a practising lawyer and threatening people over the web well, it appears the ‘pres’ is doing a good enough job of wrecking the ‘group’ himself.
So, is this 120 member group affiliated with any other student organisations on campus (ie Union, SA, Guild?) It clearly isn’t affiliated with ALSA or with any other student run law society. Looking over the website, it appears to primarily consist of auto-generated text!
So …let’s dig a little deeper. We have a known ‘pres’ but the constitution says there is an exec as well. So who are they? Are they aware what the pres has been doing to this ‘group’?
I’ll be catching up with some of the UWS LSA people later in the week to sus this stuff out.
Regarding a ‘second chance’ and all that, well, if Sanders is just being a harmless idiot I will still reserve my right to giggle my arse off at him. I mean seriously, the guy has more issues than Reader’s Digest. But hey, if he wants to entertain fantasies in his head about being some uber-Aryan super scientist cyborg warrior poet-artiste (think Brian Molko crossed with a young Ross ‘The Skull’ May) from fuckin Willmot then good luck to him. However, if he tries pushing any race-hate shit around any legit activist networks then I’ll probably have something to say (that is, if I can stop laughing at his resume).
HAH! I found that Val Debauchee shit again:
I reckon this persona trumps all Sanders’ other wankery (and there is LOT of wankery!):
http://www.fightdemback.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2082&highlight=sanders
That said …I recall not minding some of his photography.
Oh …and IF the UWS LSA IS a Right-Wing Liberal Party bumchum club (and having met a few of them, I don’t really think that this is the case) – why didn’t Sanders just join them? After all, the guy is a vociferous Monarchist:
Ok ..so we have a guy who is currently involved in some very ‘fight the power’ style activist movements who was/is involved with another figment of his imagination called the “Australian Underground and Empire Loyalist Movement” …right.
Oh ..and his old mate Robert Roach is still along for the ride as well in this ‘fight the power’ thing.
One more …the ‘Law Society’ has a facebook group consisting of five members and it was started by Robert Roach. Now …to the best of my knowledge. Roachie doesn’t attend UWS, nor does he study Law.
There’s some weird shit going on here.
Any questions?
An interesting read, to be sure. I’m concerned as to the shelf life on it… and what’s not being said. His arrest was some time ago and people should be allowed to make changes in their lives. Apparently, he was found innocent. I trust the word of law enforcement agencies and our legal system more than that of an internet sleuth.
While your blog post appears to be informed, like most things that exist on the internet… anyone could have written them. It is not hard, to pretend. Everyone does it. You, for instance are crusading against what you feel is wrong. From behind your keyboard and screen, the modern day sword and shield. What’s to say you’re correct and he, is not?
Your word against his word? No, your word against his silence. Your keyboard-fu is mighty to be sure, but perhaps mis-targeted.
Take care,
L.
Nods.
Here’s a tidbit from one of his numerous emails:
Ouch …that’s a pretty big attempt to pass his little bodgy Law Soc off as having official pull within the UWS Faculty of Law AND an attempt to pass himself off as a practising solicitor.
Note the grammatical error re ‘advise’ …(shakes head). Fuck …he has no effing idea how assault operates at law. Since when did drawing police attention to someone constitute an assault? Jesus.
Ok …so he is basically fluffing himself off as a lawyer to ‘spook’ someone into not going to the police over a threat he made to them online (to send them a bomb in the mail or something so I believe). He has attempted to do this via a woeful reading of the law of assault. He has also (I believe) tried to ‘spook’ these people by using the spectre of incurred legal costs should they so seek to assistance from the police.
More of the same below.
Well Andrew, you DO have a stake in this matter seeing as you were the person who issued the threat in the first place and here you are now trying to prevent someone from going to the police by passing yourself off as a solicitor on the premise of your bad reading of a set of first year Crim notes.
Again, I won’t pretend to be a qualified lawyer when I am not, but there is more than likely some sort of criminal charge applicable here for what Sanders has done.
A) Passing himself off as a solicitor (def crim)
B) Proffering completely retarded and unqualified legal advice, advising someone NOT to go to the police in regards a potential assault (there will be something regarding conspiracy to pervert the course of justice here perhaps – I dunno)
C) Using economic duress to prevent a person from seeking police assistance, ie by basically saying, “if you go to the cops, I will be forced to start clocking up billable hours which will be charged to you in any settlement.” (not sure where this falls, definitely tortious, perhaps criminal insofar as the relevant legislation covering legal practitioners)
So on top of being kicked out of uni for having the stupidity to use his uni email AND the uni’s name AND definitely being blacklisted as a candidate for admission to practice law in NSW (and any other common law jurisdiction probably) AND losing his cleaning job at the uni …it also looks as if criminal charges may be possible and that the people he threatened have a pretty decent shot at a civil suit (if they can afford to launch it). The fact he already has form for the Cronulla shit will ensure that the DPP go over this with a fine-toothed comb as well.
Sigh …it’s a shame. To a certain degree the guy may be attempting to clean up his act and put his energy towards bringing down a certain pseudo religious crackpot organisation (where I wish him the best of luck), but doing stupid shit like this is just shooting himself in the foot with a rocket launcher.
To the gawkers reading this, for the record. Mat Henderson-Hau here, one of the founders of http://www.fightdemback.org. I’m also a final semester law student at UTS in Sydney. I’m a general, garden variety centre-left type person. I’m an Atheist and hope to work as a ‘good’ lawyer upon graduation (ie helping out people who need help).
Andrew or Robert, if you guys wanna talk about this shit, my phone number isn’t very hard to track down. I’d be interested to see if you guys have a different back story to this. Else just drop me a line at [email protected] or Facebook me.
“Well Andrew, you DO have a stake in this matter seeing as you were the person who issued the threat in the first place.”
No he wasn’t.
To clarify …some people got into a bit of a bitch fight over the removal of Nazi-ish imagery from a certain non-fash inclined forum. Sanders wasn’t happy about the removal of the material and allegedly threatened to send a bomb in the mail to the person who complained. That person went to the police. Sanders then emailed that person all those bodgy legalese emails from his uni account under the auspices of his bodgy UWS Law Soc telling those people not to go to the police.
@ndy, can you put the relevant Sanders bits in quotes? Cheers.
Sanders did not make the bomb threat, rather an associate did, or so it’s alleged.
From my understanding it might have been internet fuckery rather than anything *particularly* serious. Of course things have taken on a life of their own since then.
Ok cool …I stand corrected on that (him issuing the threat).
I only had all this shit chucked my way when the bodgy legal letters started flying around.
It looks like he (Andrew Sanders) is trying very hard to look like the leader of Anonymous by riding on the anti-Scientology coattails and being public about it, from what I hear anyway. So I doubt he’s trying to reinvent himself, he’s more likely trying to find a new audience and people naive enough to think he’s the king of the chans. It’s dead obvious he thinks the message boards are a secret clubhouse. Funnily enough, those anti-Scientology people are pretty much hated on the Chan boards now for their whitehat bullshit, as everything was perfectly fine when it was furries threatening to kill themselves in between posts of tits and gore. Sad more than anything.
Still throwing around random allegations Mathew I see.
Lumpen, yeah, I gather the “Anon is not anyone’s private army” memo seemed to get lost in the mail.
That said, the Church of Scientology can go and fuck itself as far as I’m concerned. Nazi cults are fucked, as are authoritarian alt.psychology cults.
The court found Sanders ‘not guilty’ (not ‘innocent’) regarding his arrest at Brighton-le-Sands on weapons and other charges. His involvement with the authoring of material carried on fightback.org.au in 2005 was not tested in that trial.
This is not ‘he-said-she-said.’ Sanders has demonstrably tried to create the impression that he is an authorised legal practitioner, both via his registration of lawsociety.org.au and through his conflation of his invented ‘law society’ with the body that is the University of Western Sydney.
This is about Sanders’ words against Sanders, not my, Darp’s, dux’s nor anyone’s else words against Sanders. The medium is relatively unimportant- what Sanders has done would be unlawful and deceptive even if this were all happening with quills and papyrus scrolls. The fact that Sanders is conducting his threats and deceptions via the net makes it completely appropriate that one might use the net to discuss and debunk Sanders. The medium is relatively immaterial, other than the fact that Sanders seems intent to exploit it to threaten and deceive; a website just doesn’t work as well in pamphlets. Just because it happened on the net doesn’t mean that the threats and deceptions were any less real.
My question is, what if you’re incorrect and he is working within his boundaries. What if, the person he were aiming them at were in the wrong. Perhaps he was stepping up to head off a very real threat to someone who felt that they were in danger.
I think perhaps you need to speak to your source about this bomb threat and about the true nature of why Mister Sanders decided to write those emails. Please also let your source know that Sesame Street, as far as I know is a source of hilarity… rather than impending doom. Though that Count I hear, is rather nefarious.
I think if you look deeper, you’re barking up a tree that was fabricated by some daring use of papier mache and lacquered with lies.
not guilty and innocent are synonymous to say otherwise would be utter nonsense weez.
ive got to admit this all just didnt add up, too good, too easy and way too timely for upcoming elections. the entire transcript of communication with paul summers (aka: apo) was released to law soc members and passed through the complaints department at uws and is apparently gonna be passed onto the federal police to investigate a certain middle aged guy whos been trying to use mutual personal violence orders and his feeling of being threatened by words online to get girls home addresses. im tempted to quote some shit but i think itd be safer for my ass to summarise
paul summers was a member of ‘anonymous’ or claimed to be but is actually a scientology clam or a member of osa (office of special affairs) his role is an agitator to dig up peoples backgrounds and exploit them. ive been going to enough anonymous rallies to know this stuff in depth and its all starting to make sense. he complained because /b/ tards were posting random shit on some website called thunderdome and claimed he was single handedly gonna close the place down and report it to the police because someone posted something gross
long story short he went to the sydney forums and started bagging out enturb who are a huge forum base then when syd forums told him to gtfo and stop drama whoring he started abusing certain people. andrew seems to have gotten involved at the point where he was dropping legal threats against a group of females, and yes this guy seems to target young females only, claiming they assaulted him by:-
posting a meme image of a sesame street character mailing a parcel with a lolcats juxtaposition of ‘grover mails a bomb’.
he took this to mean that the person in question, a young female, was going to ‘find out where he lives and mail bomb him’ which is patent nonsense. to make shit even funnier he claimed his wife was also assaulted even though she didnt know of the existence of grovermailsabomb.gif until much later and apparently this was in a thread of hundreds of random image / meme spam. but our boy summers found it and thought he could spin it into another ‘assault’ upon him to get more addresses.
i dont think any of the emails were inappropriate enough, even for me, to get him dressed down and to be honest this paul summers guy is a total fuckstain from what i read, they were the same generic bs of general letter of demands or letters offering mediation. besides since when would scientologists want to ‘take down nazi material from a forum’? ever looked at their ethnic majority? they’re as fash as they come lol
to clarify for darp too, some unis have law societies others have law student associations, theres two kinds according to wiki; philanthropic organisations and social networking / rubbing shoulders with the legal industry self-serving kinds. at uws the lsa is the social networking dinner and caviar one, the law society is the nexus for people who cant afford legal aid / cant speak english / cant access the law where they’re spoonfed how to access legal assistance. the law soc isnt with alsa but we have close ties with clcs and the law soc of nsw tho some of us want it to be a little more official than just helping people with needs coz lets face it charity looks good on cvs but doesnt get you a good job on graduation 😛
also just a heads up for darp, the pres of the lsa is the pres of the young liberal club on campus n his brother is nick adams (anglicized his surname) so u were rubbin shoulders with the outgoing hitleresque government there surely you smelt the fresh boot polish?
looks like were all getting taken for a ride. if sanders is a nazi im gonna be riding his ass n once his tenures up im still ttly running against him but the more i dig the more i find no one but the media even claimed he was a nazi n ive never known nazis to use bolts with fists in them lol i think thats a bit more our thing. have the media ever interviewed him? have u guys ever spoken to him? im worried ive jumped the gun a bit myself and judged this guy just based on internet flame which is always fair and balanced news reporting, just like today tonight mirite? :/
For starters, your slanderous crap needs to stop. Who gives a flying fuck if he’s this or that. He’s a decent human being, delusional or not. He helps whenever possible and has proven himself to be reliable and forthcoming with anythin asked of him.
Secondly, Paul Summers, your constant bullshit, threats, harassment is for one annoying, futile and last but most certainly not least pathetic.
The fact that this alleged “bomb threat” was a fucking meme says it all. All of this garbage started when “AnonProphetOrg” had an issue with AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FORUM, and figured he could bring his beef over to another forum. He soapboxed long enough, had a whinge, basically trolled the place. He had a whinge like a 5 year old girl over a fucking meme, and a photo another member of said forum posted. Having wanting himself banned/removed/etc he in the end was, and now seems content on ruining Andrew’s life.
Just give up on destroying whatever he wants to do.
At the end of the day, what has he done to hurt any of you? Has his existence proven that detrimental to any of your normal day to day lives?
Grow up, all of you.
You have to put yourself in the position of the people who received the threat as well. You have a random flame war going on, the imputation is made that a bomb is coming your way, you then receive an email from someone called Andrew Sanders who claims to be acting for and associated with the person who issued the threat (and when reading the emails, appears to be obsessively protective of that person). You google Andrew Sanders and voila, you have a guy with actual bomb-making experience. Now, paying Andrew’s bodgy little first year Crim Law game – surely anyone in the position of the victims would apprehend the distinct possibility of a bomb coming their way? The notions of immediacy of threat and probability of it being carried out become a tad more heightened in that context.
http://media.funlol.com/content/img/grover-mailing-a-bomb.jpg
There was no actual THREAT made. Jesus fucking christ. He has never made a threat of the “I’m gonna send a bomb to you” kind.
The fact that Andrew has come along to protests was purely his decision. Paul Summers has jumped on the bandwagon and googled Andrew’s history. Where is the factual “bomb making experience”? Where is the substantial evidence he was going to make bombs? If you’ve googled him enough, you’d know what Tunnel Rats did.
“the people who received the bomb” – He’s a hypochrondriac that has blown a MEME out of proportion. THERE WAS NO THREAT. Not to mention the alleged complainant has stalked, harassed, threatened to and I quote “take them down” and has also threatened to “hand you over to CoS as they have offered to pay my legal costs. Last I checked (and having gone through the legal system to gain one) those are grounds for an AVO.
The involved party who allegedly “threatened to bomb” went to Andrew as a trusted friend and asked advice. Andrew felt it right to take her into his comfort. Is there anything wrong with that?
The fact that Paul Summers/AnonProphetOrg/Stalker/Freak had to google him to find any details, or at least it wouldn’t surprise had the information given to him by CoS / others, says it all. He didn’t even have the balls to ask first.
So what is this, defame first ask questions later?
Friend of accused’s vile words of hatred
Joe Hildebrand
The Daily Telegraph
December 22, 2005
A CLOSE friend of accused white supremacist Andrew Sanders has admitted online to being the co-administrator of a racist website that advocates the bashing of Lebanese people.
The Daily Telegraph has also obtained further material closely linking Sanders himself to a driving role in the website http://www.fightback.org.au.
The Fight Back site was established in the wake of the Cronulla riots as a means of organising self-proclaimed “white nationalists” to take part in further action.
As revealed by The Daily Telegraph yesterday, it was registered by an organisation originally run by Sanders’ late father.
Yesterday it emerged that Sanders’ friend and fellow “tunnel rat” Robert Roach, known online as “Freak”, also ran the website.
Online postings reveal Freak boasting about the site in a forum on Australian New Nation, a website and organisation calling for a referendum on immigration.
It reads: “Recently as you all know there has been some turmoil with this Leb/wog fiasco. A website has start [sic] to gather all WN [white nationalists] and bring us together and fight these people and stand up for our rights and culture in Australia.
“Today the website was posted on the newspaper and have had many e-mails. Spread the word my friends and gather round. http://www.fightback.org.au. We are making history and progressing along gradually, but I don’t see these Lebs doing anything about there [sic] own lives.
“This site will have information and current news about what’s happening so keep posted. Thanks, Freak.”
The Fight Back site gives readers advice on how to take action, including making sure potential victims are Lebanese before bashing them.
Another post by Freak on the new Australia site reads: “In this point in time [sic], 1 enemy at a time: Lebs first, Jews second.”
Mr Roach yesterday admitted using the name “Freak” online and being a friend of Sanders, but denied having any involvement with fightback.org.au or ever having mentioned it.
“No, not at all. No, never,” he said.
Meanwhile, Nazi hunters have linked Sanders to the white supremacist website Stormfront, where he urges people to visit fightback.org.au. Using the name blue8eyed8devil, he urges people to visit the site, which he says is run by someone called “Val”.
However Val is a name Sanders, as blue8eyed8devil, has previously signed off with.
The Daily Telegraph has also obtained pictures of him graffitiing the name in a tunnel, along with that of Freak.
The above [img] @ndy posted was the extent of the “bomb threat.”
Your source attempted to gain the address of Anonymous protesters with the intent to harm or de-mask them. They are still in danger as they continue to protest. As you well know, Scientology is dangerous and this member would have been at considerable risk. He also showed a fixation and consistently contacted other members of Anonymous with the intent to collect information.
Andrew Sanders never made the bomb threat, if in fact you count that little image macro as a threat.
Having now gotten my head around the actual sesame street oriented threat, I can see the silliness of it.
Yet, the nature of the threat is now pretty much irrelevant as Sanders’ response to it has been insanely clumsy. I have read all the emails he sent out and as I am not a qualified lawyer I badgered someone who is (a retired Supreme Court Judge and top criminal QC). Their quick reading of the situation was that the following charges may apply:
The general comments being that despite bumbling attempts to keep within the legal boundaries of a law student offering ‘advice’, those boundaries were clearly overstepped and that there is a case to answer. The perverting the course of justice stuff is probably the most serious.
And yes, I do know how student law societies work as I am the vice-president of the UTS LSS. Believe it or not, we are actually able to do BOTH (rub shoulders with the big end of town and engage in community law stuff).
So, yes. I’m in agreeance that the flame war was fucking stupid and need not have escalated beyond F words and Jpgs. Yet Andrew has led with his chin in responding to it by writing letters which will possibly get him kicked out of uni, see him never being admitted as a lawyer and see him possibly facing criminal charges. The authenticity of these emails can easily be sussed out by the UWS IT monkeys going over the logs for Andrew’s student email account. These letters have also led me to question the standard of teaching at UWS as regards Criminal Law. A year 11 Legal Studies student could turn in a better effort than these emails Sanders wrote.
@ndy –
Read what you linked. ACCUSED is the operative word. Remember that, ACCUSED.
Members of Anonymous have ACTUALLY been THREATENED by this nuisance of a person.
“I will hand all of your personal information over” is the direct quote.
VelvetRabbit:
The introductory paragraph in the post to which this commentary is a response reads:
“Andrew Sanders is an odd fellow.
In December 2005, Andrew came to the attention of anti-racist activists, and subsequently state authorities, after authoring a website titled Fightback. (Funnily enough, that site is now home to a Trotskyist groupuscule.) The site gave detailed instructions on how to prepare for the second Cronulla civil uprising — one scheduled, in the minds of the perhaps few dozen phantasists who masturbated online over its commencement, for the following weekend. Arrested by police / ZOG agents in the days following the Cronulla pogrom / civil uprising, Andrew was charged with a number of offences. Trial commenced in October 2006, and Andrew was eventually exonerated.“