- Update (October 4) : Unkle Fred’s extradition hearing has been adjourned, and he’s been remanded in custody. Word on the street is that the remand centre has a swimming pool, hospital, brothel, dentist, daycare and theatre. His next hearing is scheduled to take place October 10, followed by a full hearing October 17. According to The Guardian: A small group of supporters, including the controversial British historian, David Irving, attended today’s hearing. Outside the courtroom Irving, who was jailed in Austria for denying the Holocaust, said: “Either you have freedom of speech or you don’t. Freedom of speech means the right to be wrong.” Asked if he agreed with Toben, he said: “I disapprove of some of his views but he has the right to express them. This case is about the right to say what you think and the right to be wrong.” SMH: Also present at the hearing was ‘Lady Michele Renouf’, aka Countess Michèle Susan Mainwaring Griaznoff Peacock Sangster Renouf … a LADY of the New Right.
Update : According to a report in Deutsche-Welle, “In 1999, Toben spent seven months in jail in Germany and has served an 11-month sentence in Austria for Holocaust denial. In 2006, [as] a speaker at a controversial two-day conference in Tehran organized by the Iranian government and attended by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad… he described as “mere puffery” the assertion that Jews were killed by the Nazis.” The Australian Jewish News (Toben could face jail in Germany and Australia, Peter Kohn) reflects on the ramifications Mr. T’s trial may have for current proceedings against him Down Under.
Poor old Unkle Fred. Or should I say ‘Gerald’? According to Aunty:
Man accused of Holocaust denial
BBC
October 1, 2008An alleged Holocaust denier has been arrested by police after flying into Heathrow Airport in London. The Metropolitan Police’s extradition unit detained Australian Gerald Töben, 64, under an EU arrest warrant issued by the German authorities. He is accused of publishing material on the internet that “denies, approves of or plays down the mass murder of Jews by the Nazis”. He is due to appear at London’s City of Westminster Magistrates’ Court. The arrest warrant alleges that Mr Toben committed the offence in Australia, Germany and other countries, and that the material is also “of an anti-Semitic and/or revisionist nature”.
Interesting stuff. An Australian citizen, Unkle Fredrik is apparently being arrested, in England, on the basis that his Internet publications may be read in Germany — where Holocaust denial is a crime.
Töben is of course a close comrade of Welf Herfurth, the ‘national anarchist’ and fuehrer of the New Reich Right, a fascist political formation most recently championed — albeit sneakily — by Darrin Hodges of the Australian Protectionist Party. In 2007, Herfurth addressed the Inverell Forum on the topic of how ace the NPD is; at the same conference, Richard Krege, another denialist, also spoke. Like Krege, Töben attended the Holocaust conference in Tehran (‘the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust’ to give its full title) in 2006. The APP, for its part, is arranging for the leader of the BNP, Nick Griffin, to tour the colonies in December. He too, is on record as denying the Holocaust.
- Above : Fredrick Töben (Adelaide Institute) and Welf Herfurth (ex-One Nation, Australia First Party) annexe Sydney using the MaGiCaL pOwErS invested in Horst Mahler‘s flag and on behalf of the Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands, January 27, 2005.
This is not the first time the madcap amateur anti-Semite Unkle Fred has been in trouble:
Australian historian faces German jail over Holocaust views
ABC
April 20, 1999Now to the case of the Australian revisionist historian whose arrest in Germany has become an international test case for freedom of speech on the Internet. Dr Fredrick Töben, who is the director of a group called the Adelaide Institute has been charged under a German law which prohibits defaming the memory of the dead. German authorities allege Dr Töben has questioned the scale of the Holocaust and dismissed accounts detailing the use of gas chambers in Nazi concentration camps. If found guilty he faces five years in jail…
As a result, Unkle Fred was imprisoned for nine months (or possibly seven, or ten — depending on the source) at Mannheim Prison for breaching Germany’s Holocaust Law, Section 130, that prohibits anyone from “defaming the dead”. Well, sorta… the relevant section of Section 130 of the Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch, StGB) reads:
3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or renders harmless an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 220a subsection (1), in a manner capable of disturbing the public [peace] shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.
(4) Subsection (2) shall also apply to writings (Section 11 subsection (3)) with content such as is indicated in subsection (3).
(5) In cases under subsection (2), also in conjunction with subsection (4), and in cases of subsection (3), Section 86 [Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations] subsection (3), shall apply correspondingly.
(1) Whoever, with the intent of destroying as such, in whole or in part, a national, racial or religious group or one characterized by its folk customs by:
1. killing members of the group;
2. inflicting serious physical or emotional harm, especially of the type indicated in Section 226 on members of the group;
3. placing the group in living conditions capable of leading, in whole or in part, to their physical destruction;
4. imposing measures which are intended to prevent births within the group;
5. forcibly transferring children of the group into another group,
shall be punished with imprisonment for life.
(2) In less serious cases under subsection (1), numbers 2 to 5, the punishment shall be imprisonment for not less than five years.
Most recently (August 2008), Unkle Fred was awaiting a verdict on charges of contempt of court for defying the Federal Court’s 2002 order to remove Holocaust-denial material from his website, in a case brought by the Executive Council of Australian Jewry (ECAJ).
Incidentally, Martin Fletcher of Downunder Newslinks launched an appeal on behalf of Unkle Fred in April last year following news of Jeremy Jones’ court action: “Help Dr. Fredrick Toben; Help Free Speech”, Martin appealed, writing that “Dr. Frederick Toben, fearless Revisionist, is being persecuted by Australian Jewry for not telling their version of the Holocaust on his web site”. Earlier, in January 2007, Martin opined: “It is disgraceful to see [a] great mind being silenced for searching for the truth behind the Holocaust. The “facts” need to be brought out into the public for all to see instead of being covered up and buried. Many people throughout the world have been jailed for questioning the events of the Holocaust. Why would researching the Holocaust be made against the law in so many countries? Something to hide?” In March 2008, Martin commented: “Good to see Dr Toben is still fighting hard against Australian Jews”.
Martin is, of course, a close ally of Darrin Hodges, and co-moderates the APP’s ‘Australian Identity’ forum. His own website, at least for the moment, is down.
Also of interest in this context is the curious case of Simon Sheppard and Stephen Whittle, UK citizens convicted of similar crimes who fled to the US, where they now sit in jail in Los Angeles, while the courts decide what to do with the dynamic duo.
See also : Germany Convicts Non-Resident Blogger for Inciting Hatred by Denying Holocaust, Kelly O’Connell, IBLS, September 18, 2008 | Electronic Frontiers Australia. And let’s hope the authorities don’t deny they’ve got Unkle Fred in custody eh?
It is really interesting that the “Jewish claws of injustice” reach out anywhere in the world. How is it that an Australian citizen can be jailed in the U.K., transported to Germany against his free will and then jailed there! And this is democracy. This is a worse state of affairs than during the Cold War, since even the Jewish-Communist system was not as discriminating. Well it looks like it is true that those who have money, have power! You want to bet that the US Congress will give them the $700 billion for their pocket money expenses and business (bank) bailouts? It is starting to look like the likes of Toben, Irving, etc. may have more going for them than meets the eye.
There is nothing in the official records to suggest that Welf Herfurth has ever been a member of the Australia First Party.
[Blah blah blah…]
[Blah blah blah…]
Did you check your sources? I mean he’s an Australian AND denies the Holocaust? How likely is that? Think about it. That country down there has nothing to do with the Holocaust. Why would he be there if he was going to deny it? No-one is really interested there. As for the arrest – where did you get that information? Was it him, or just someone that looked like him, or claiming to be him? The UK police haven’t exactly had a good record of arresting the right people lately, or anytime for that matter. Which also means they need to arrest a few more people. Or perhaps they are just holding him, and not arresting him, there’s a difference you know. All of this leads me to believe that there is nothing believable about this whole so-called incident.
What’s even more interesting is how antisemites simultaneously believe Jews are inferior yet so powerful as to be able to co-ordinate global conspiracies. I guess they know something about the ZOG satellite that the rest of us don’t.
And wasn’t Jewish claws of injustice the name of a Skrewdriver song?
Zegna
Your fascist mind is delusional – seeing ZOG behind every door.
Zegna: You make some very good points. Unfortunately, The Jews are in reality controlled by Giant Lizards from Outer Space; the likes of Toben, Irving, etc. have A LOT more going for them than meets the eye!
Diane: Right.
Come on now: Did you read my post? Which version? Have you read other accounts and interpretations of my post? What makes you ASSUME that I wrote anything about this mysterious “Australian”? I’m an Australian. And a blogger. He’s (allegedly) an Australian, AND denies the Holocaust… AND I wrote about him? How likely is that? The “facts” need to be brought out into the public for all to see instead of being covered up and buried. Something about this whole affair just doesn’t add up, and what’s worse, if you question it, The Jews will kill you or lock you up.
And they call it democracy!
Lumpen: I’m pretty sure ‘Jewish claws of injustice’ was the B-side to a 7″ single Giant Lizards from Outer Space released on Illuminati Records in 1978.
Renny: What’s funny is that ZOG only peers through windows!
free speech should be allowed to all and they should not be prosercuted [sic] for a genuine attemped [sic] at the truth or the perception of [sic]
[For the last time… get a blog!]
personally i think that potty has a ver [sic] good point to everything tht [sic] she has said
Great minds think alike.
what[‘]s the chance of him getting a fair trial[?]
What are the odds you know the first thing about the German legal system? Invert.
is toben an australian citizen?
Yes, afaik.
Well spotted Lumpen.
It’s actually a very good example of cognitive dissonance, which is rampant amongst anti-Semites like Toben. That is why they are so aggressive — having to believe opposite sides of an argument at the same time.
There are enough clear minded folks to recognise a rotten apple when they see one.
I saw a picture of him recently musing with Ahmadinejad at the revisionist conference in Tehran with David Irving. They are obviously all getting their funds from these countries nowadays rather than from the millionaire extreme right wing nutters in the US.
On the business of Holocaust denial, see also:
Lying About the Holocaust
“National borders don’t mean much in the international Holocaust denial business, but America is playing a special role”
Kenneth S. Stern
Intelligence Report
Fall 2001
Further, in the United States:
‘Radical Traditionalist Catholics’ Comprise Major Anti-Semitic Movement
(January 17, 2007)
“The growing number of “radical traditionalist Catholics,” men and women who angrily reject many of the Vatican’s core teachings, may form the single largest group of hard-core anti-Semites in America, according to a report, The New Crusaders, released today in the latest issue of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Report.”
Promoting Hate: California Professor is Font of Anti-Semitism
Heidi Beirich
Intelligence Report
Spring 2007
“Kevin MacDonald was honored in 2004 for his work on the Jews by The Occidental Quarterly, a white supremacist publication. He was accompanied by Virginia Abernethy, a self-described ‘white separatist’…”
On Holocaust denial:
surely more time should be spent on your friend, your neighbour, your mother, loving rather than wasting time on thigs [sic] yuo [sic] weren[‘]t around for.
I suggest you take your own advice potty.
renny, at least I HAVE a mind which you obviously do not. To some even the obvious is dilusional [sic]. Dream on!
Pingback: Gerald Frederik Toben in Heathrow Verhaftet « shizo
Questioning the historical accuracy of anything should NOT be a crime. Any society that makes such an activity a crime is not a free society.
If Toben is writing hate crime then he should be convicted of hate crime not for setting forth arguments that question the accuracy of something.
I have just explored Toben’s website http://www . adelaideinstitute.org as a consequence of reading this blog and the news, and I can see no hate crime – in fact to the contrary he declares on the opening page of the website that he is NOT antisemitic.
He also seems to simply question the ‘accuracy’ of the Holocaust, not that it didn’t happen. He doesn’t appear to deny that millions of Jews probably died but that we don’t know ‘how’ or ‘how many’ died.
History should always be constantly questioned as it is always inaccurate, particularly controversial and recent history constructed by the victors and the victims of war.
‘instead they develop a history of opinion in which any manipulation or distortion of history is acceptable as one’s personal belief.’
Quite so and there’s the rub.
An opinion held through emotion or faith can seldom be countered by logic, or factual evidence. So it does not matter how much cold evidence you can dispense it will always be trumped by emotionally held views.
The same problem with the 911 truthers and the creationists.
The Adelaide institute website has been heavily rewritten since Jeremy Jones took action against it a few years ago and may look relatively “moderate” today.
Oct. 1, 2008
Dear Editor,
What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth?
I wish to express my outrage that the Holocaust, unlike any other historical event, is not subject to critical revisionist investigation. Furthermore I deplore the fact that many so-called democratic states have laws that criminalize public doubting of the Holocaust. It is my position that the veracity of Holocaust assertions should be determined in the marketplace of scholarly discourse and not in our legislatures bodies and courthouses.
Let’s end ‘thought crimes’ in the twenty-first century. Dr. Toben’s thoughts cannot be killed by his imprisonment.
Peace.
Michael Santomauro
Call anytime: 917-974-6367
[email protected]
For the record, I don’t believe crackpottery should be an arrestable offense, even when it’s more monstrous than amusing. That said, you play in dirt and you get dirty.
I wish to express my outrage that the Holocaust, unlike any other historical event, is not subject to critical revisionist investigation…
Not so! Many hundreds of thousands of hours over half a century have been spent documenting the Holocaust by researchers throughout the Western world. it is perhaps the most documented disaster in human history.
The revisionism of people like Toben or the neo nazis who attended the conference in Iran is not and has never been aimed at true scholarly discussion, it is aimed squarely at whitewashing the deeds of Adolf Hitler and attacking the camp survivors, calling them liars, in the most despicable way possible simply because they are Jews.
devo
100% right in your first paragraph.
Toben and others got together in Tehran with the loony Islamites because they share a common ideology in many ways – it is an attempt to make a strategic alliance. On the ground, Toben and his cronies are usually very anti-Muslim when it comes to immigration to the “Western” world.
Fuck ’em all. The mad mullahs, the nazis, the christian right in the USA, the right-wing zionist zealots. They are all the same – reactionary bastards.
We were taught that our fathers fought in two world wars for free speech and democracy. Dr Toben’s arrest flies against everything I was taught existed in a democracy and he should be released forthwith. The whole arrest and prospective transportation of Dr Toben makes one think there might be an element of truth in his and David Irving’s views on the Holocaust.
I thought transportation ended in Britain in the nineteenth century, apparently not so.
Aswhitz had a swimming pool,hospital,brothel,dentist,day care,theatre,prison etc etc.
the inmates were manufacturing ammunition for the Germans.
dom: That Aswhitz had a swimming pool,hospital,brothel,dentist,day care,theatre,prison etc etc. may be so, but the Nazi concentration camp in the Polish town of Auschwitz was the site of the single largest mass murder in the history of humanity.
Johny: If the whole arrest and prospective transportation of Dr Toben makes you think there might be an element of truth in his and David Irving’s views on the Holocaust, then the arrest of an alleged murderer must make you think there might be an element of fun in killing.
@ndy he is arrested for his views he has not done anything, get it dummer than dumb.
Johny: It’s spelled “dumber”.
Fred was arrested by detectives from Scotland Yard on October 1 at Heathrow Airport while in transit from the US to Dubai, on the basis that he is wanted by German authorities for an alleged crime; that crime is publishing material on the internet that “denies, approves of or plays down the mass murder of Jews by the Nazis”. (I’ve referred to the relevant legislation.) His legal situation is still being addressed by the British courts; he was arrested following the issuing of a warrant. What he done is what he published on teh Interwebs, specifically on the Adelaide Institute website. There is a precedent for this, and it may be found in the case of his fellow denialist (and hardhat fancier) Ernst Zündel:
For heaven’s sake let the people no matter where punish this crazy deluded person, he really can’t deny what those murderous animals did. He and those like him will meet their master, let them crap on to him about their warped views.
I dont understand how holocaust denial, or revisionism can be illegal, where is our free speech? I mean its 2008 and we aren’t allowed to speak out our own opinion!? I myself a few years ago was researching all of this, i couldn’t speak to anyone about it because i was considered racist or anti-Semitic. I am Australian, Scottish, and an Atheist. I think what Toben is doing is a noble thing. Hes not forcing it upon anyone, hes just trying, but because people are so damn ignorant and stubborn about it they refuse to have ANYTHING to do about it. Its like “i heard the holocaust might have been over-exaggerSTOP BEING SO RACIST YOU ANTI-SEMITIC BASTARD HOW DARE YOU”, etc etc. It really is quite sad for this day and age.
@ndy, I’ve had a complete change of ♥, and it’s all because of Jew!
I dunno what sort of people you get about with @ndy, but my daughter’s getting old enough to know a few things. In Sydney this week there was a “male” astrider with open face helmet on a Pussy PINK SCOOTER doing 20 km/hr slower than everyone else. I told her “See that there? …That’s what a Poofter looks like.” He probably had a pair of tite overall flairs and rollerskates secreted away in his scooter’s storage “sachet”. MMMmmmmmm MMMmmm mince that Mutton my way Baby…
I do believe KinkyBoy is making a pass! Sorry, KinkyBoy, but I don’t go in for these backdoor shenanigans. Sure, I’m flattered, maybe even a little curious, but the answer is no!
There’s something so specific about KinkyBoy’s vision of homosexuality that makes me think it has a basis in a reality external from his own mind (tight overalls? Rollerskates? Mutton? What the fuck?). Despite knowing better, I really want to know the story behind it. Most likely it’s something as mundane a cartoon he once saw in Der Stürmer , but inquiring minds need to know. Where does this shit come from?
It appears that at some point in the past, KinkyBoy may have been seduced by a sheep whose invitation to come rollerskating turned out to involve much MMMmmmmmm MMMmmmore than he initially imagined. Either that, or he’s speculating about the incredible adventures one can still have in the City of Sin.
So it was you we passed. I knew there was something Nerdy and “stylistically” familiar about that particular Z Geek.
To avoid the pointing derision and missiles of Bogan Gentiles and others in the manner of Rodney Rude, may I suggest a change in bicycular attire?
http://www.ktm.com.au/bike.php?bike=138
Anarchic Judaism… it’s a Kippahed and mutton chapped FAG mincing his way with abandon ’bout the ‘hood atop environmentally fwendly rollerskates. Not Roller blades… O’No…never… Must be………Roller…Skates.
More power to the “Chosen”.
Was it a Black Sheep? That would explain a lot.
Where did the six million figure originally come from? Was it on a page in a book or a board on a wall or is it a aggregate figure of numbers. It just seems to arrive like magic on its own not 5,950,000 or 6,100,000… If you look up the Russian dead from WW2 the estimates vary between 20 and 30 million. How can the Jewish number be so exact and why must you always say it’s 6,000,000 or be thrown in Jail? Why are we not “compelled” to have to say 30 million Russians died in WWII and why is there no risk of jail for saying only 20 million Russians died?
Johnjo: Estimates of the number of Jewish victims of the Nazi Holocaust vary. Six million is a widely-accepted figure in mainstream scholarship. Scholarship is based on research; the accumulation of a body of evidence and its use in the construction of an argument or thesis: what you might better understand as ‘pages in books’ and/or ‘writings on chalkboards or walls’.
Here’s what the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum states:
Yad Vashem The Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes’ Remembrance Authority:
Regarding being ‘thrown in jail’, presumably, you’re referring to Unkle Fred. He has been detained by British authorities (Scotland Yard) on the basis of a warrant issued by German authorities (Mannheim court) not for the alleged crime of claiming that “5,950,000 or 6,100,000” Jews died in the Holocaust but rather on the basis of the contents of a number of Internet publications between the years 2000 and 2004. “Instigation to race hatred, insult and reviling the memory of the dead” are his alleged crimes, and point not to a casual remark but systematic work over a period of years aimed at consciously undermining what are held to be historical truths. The actual charge reads:
“From 2000 up to this day, worldwide internet publications of anti-Semitic and/or revisionist nature. Deliberately contrary to the historical truth, the said publications deny, approve or play down above all the mass murder of the Jews planned and implemented by the National-Socialist rulers. The offender is committing the acts in Australia, Germany and in other countries.”
Beyond this, it is not specific. In the event that Unkle Fred is extradited to Germany, the prosecution will obviously have to make a detailed case against him.
Finally, the reasons why Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany has to do with history, and the program of de-Nazification of German society the occupying powers (Britain, France and the US in particular) instituted at the end of WWII — a process aimed, ostensibly, at rooting out the Nazi presence in German culture.
Which is a whole other story.
Why don’t you source some of these allegations with articles from Toben himself?
No proof! 14! 88! Hutt! Hutt! Hutt!
I meant that you have zero proof that Toben made these claims.
It’s appalling that Britain is conniving with the crooked holoco$ters even to the extent that Dr Toben must put up bail of £100,000 cash, report to police daily, reside at a specific address approved by the police, and is prohibited from using the internet, attending public meetings or giving press interviews. And these restrictions of his human rights are for alleged thought crimes, after the case was thrown out by a judge!
Whatever happened to Magna Carta? “NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.”
The Toben case proves that the authorities certainly will sell out – if the price is right!
Part of the crooks’ abuse of power derives from the European superstate, which was originally peddled as merely a “Common Market”.
The only people who still swallow or purport to believe the traditional tale of “Nazi gas chambers” are slack-brained, uneducated, unsophisticated borderline retards; those who have been on another planet for the past ten years; sloth-brained types with zero intellectual curiosity; techophobes or Scrooges who cannot or will not use the internet; and fraudsters with a vested interest in the scam – whether business or political.
The purpose of the “six million” hoax – which was conceived in the 19th century prior to Rabbi Stephen Samuel Wise’s June 1900 statement about how “six million” dead or dying Jews would be a pretty good argument for Zionism – included provision of a sanctuary for swindlers and mass murderers (Palestine) which would be out of the reach of other states; exploitation of the criminals’ own sovereign state as a base for weapons (some of which have turned out to be nuclear) for additional bargaining power; and the extortion of trillions of dollars and trillions of marks from the US, Germany, etc.
In the wake of the Zionist Mafia’s staging of terror attacks (for which “suicidal” Muslims were framed) such as 9/11 and 7/7, Britain has been transformed into a neo-Stasi state in which “anti-terror” legislation is abused by local authorities spying on residents suspected of ‘serious’ crimes such as putting rubbish out too early or living outside the catchment area for a school.
Our forefathers were led to believe they were fighting for freedom. In reality, they were fighting for the swindlers’ long-standing megalomaniac plans for global despotism.
he’s back home now. german authorities have withdrawn the extradition request.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/03/2437194.htm?section=justin