- A x-post from the Boycott the Birmingham blog. And since when were goths so reactionary? Did I miss the vampire bat or something? Check the conversation among some of the locals. Like Bart Simpson once famously stated, “We need another Battle of Nassius to thin out their ranks a little”.
As has been customary for the last 20 years or so, the last Saturday in September is when the Melbourne Punk Pub Crawl takes place. The kick-off point is The Arty, while the final destination has varied. Most recently, it’s been The Birmy.
On Saturday, September 29, 2007, as on Saturday, September 30, 2006, a number of punks crawled to The Birmy to drink and to watch punks perform on- and off- stage. This year, four bands were scheduled to perform:
Sewer Cider; Social Suicide; Suicide Kings; and The Worst.
Sewer Cider and The Worst have played at The Birmy on a number of previous occasions. Both bands were contacted prior to the gig to ascertain their attitude toward the boycott. Sewer Cider did not reply, while The Worst, in the person of Chunga, their lead singer, replied that he wasn’t a racist and that anarchists were faggots.
In 2006, on white supremacist website Stormfront, a local member of the Hammerskins, agreeing with Chunga, recalled the ISD gig the week before the 2006 Melbourne Punk Pub Crawl as follows:
Some tool rang up the owner and said he was some construction union boss and had 200 union members in the city that were going to come and picket outside and alluded to maybe doing more than that.
They also rang the owner all night and hung up and harassed him.
There was even the gig’s address/details/map/location/phone number on ‘the site we aren’t allowed to talk about here’ on the day of the gig.
Well we waited all night to ‘say hello’ to these scum and NOT one person turned up.
It’s amazing how these cowardly dirtbags can even stand up without a spine. Gutless fags.
The gig was brilliant: great bands, great people and a good time was had by all.
UP YOURS FAG ANTI-RACIST VERMIN!
GOD FORGIVES, HAMMERS DON’T!
Following the gig, Jason Bastard of Bastard Squad wrote (September 24, 2006):
It’s about time we find out where our friends really stand. This is something that can no longer be ignored. The annual punk pub crawl happens this Saturday (September 30), and it usually finishes at The Birmy. I cannot believe that punks will still go to The Birmy after something as significant as this. Hypocrisy seems no longer an issue in today’s ‘anything goes’ apathetic punk scene. If punks go to The Birmy, even the fundamentals that we all share become null and void. It would be nothing less than ridiculing ourselves.
This is not the case of ‘oh shit, boneheads were at that pub last week, we better not go there’.
This is much more than that. This is something well organised and deliberate. This is blatant support of Blood & Honour because it is providing a venue for their gigs and meetings. To all extents and purposes the Birmy can justifiably be called a Blood & Honour pub.
I will not be going to The Birmy at the end of the pub crawl or at any other time in the future. I will also be reminding others of what happened there and asking them if they are still going. It will be interesting to hear what reasons punks give for still going to The Birmy. If the answer has anything to do with having no heart or no backbone, maybe I will ask myself ‘what is this all about then’.
So what’ll it be, punk?
Fuck off if you don’t want to help, that’s the message loud and clear
From the con men you once labelled, you bastards just don’t care
Just who the fuck are you to talk? You even sell yourselves
O.K. you’ve got your own opinions, well now have ours as well
Shut your mouth, because you don’t understand the way things are
The way we live, the role we play is not a superstar
For you to use, build up, smash down as you see fit
You dozy jerks you write such shit
If we sound like a bad phone call then you’ve got a crossed line
If we tell you the same as yesterday, well, did you think we would change our minds?
You say we look too violent, say our message is forgotten
Well, if you don’t like that tough, because that’s the only face I’ve got!
Shut your mouth, because you don’t understand the way things are
The way we live, the role we play is not a superstar
For you to use, build up, smash down as you see fit
You don’t know shit… you make me sick
Jeff, your reliable sources are wrong. andy was not on pub crawl. he was probably too busy drawing EIGHTS sideways… or fighting nazis from his desktop.
how bout a boycott on the birmy for having jewish barmistfas in the free function room. or bucks nights with st[r]ippers, or the jelly wrestling. or the left-wing hippie gigs. obviously all politically motivated. to trick everyone, that those two gigs in the last ten years were the real reason he runs the pub.
to everyone that takes up this so called “boycott” (still haven[‘]t seen the picket line) have fun with that. i’ll continue to drink, practice and play gigs there, and so will many others.
to all those that say they’re against the birmy but go to the good gigs there. who are you to judge anyone.
to all the “crusty” anrcho-punks that left patrick o’sullivan to harass two girls at a crust gig, but managed to muster up the strength to give the girls a dirty look. tear that anti-swastika patch off your jacket. why claim to be something your not.
to all the bands that have joined this boycott. when would any of you played the birmy anyway? so much for making a hard, life changing decision in your stance against nazis. cos i’m boycotting playing at vodafone arena. bold move i know.
seems all it’s about is saying your gonna do the “right” thing without actually doing it that makes you better than everyone.
none of this has anything to do with american or european nazis killing people. just as you have nothing to do with european anarchists killing police.
as for true colours showing. i know what i believe. the people that know me, know what i believe. i won’t justify myself or my actions to either side.
and andy since your the master of Ctrl C Ctrl V i hope this is up to your standards…
Call To Arms
Another cause, heed the call, everybody rally ’round
don’t contemplate if it’s right, just follow the crowd
but don’t you dare disagree
’cause they’ll question your loyalty
their idea of comraderie is to heed their call to arms
who appointed you the moral judge?
pointing your fingers at everyone
don’t pull that guilt trip bullshit on me
nothing you say or do can decide for me
so go ahead, keep your rules, i’ll choose my own wars
your accusations and harsh words can’t do me any harm
’cause i don’t believe in blind loyalty
that’s just mob mentality
i will answer what’s right for me
and not your call to arms
Most of the people that were at the Birmy protest ended up drinking at the Birmy on pub crawl…
And those who didn’t look twice at the two girls being harassed by O’Sullivan at a crust gig…
Obviously, you all truly believe in what you say.
Yeesh. Someone’s unhappy about the state of their hair, that’s for sure.
The Birmy is allowing barmistfas?!? In the FREE function room?!? And BUCKS NIGHTS WITH STIPPERS?!?!?!
I had NO IDEA.
(Oo-er.)
As for the jelly wrestling, this will obviously have to be reported to the Jelly Wrestling Federation, and, if unauthorised, would constitute a serious breach of Federation rules.
The Teacher will NOT be happy!
And as for left-wing hippie gigs, shit, there’s just so bloody many (I’m sure you can, and will, name dozens) I’m not even gonna bother.
One thing at a time eh?
It’s been more than two gigs Ben… and Gary runs the pub for money — that’s why no-one’s claimed otherwise.
I couldnae guessed. As for gigs… those seem to be in pretty short supply at the moment, wouldn’t you say? In fact, way I figure it, there’s been… about seven punk gigs at The Birmy since September 23 last year.
I know absolutely nothing about this. Feel free to elaborate. Besides, you’re drinking, practicing and playing gigs at a neo-Nazi pub, and the last time a neo-Nazi gig was held there…
“Blondien (not her real name) says she was walking alone to her car on Johnston Street the same night when she was surrounded by about seven men. She says the men screamed abuse at her, calling her a black c..t and forcing her to repeat the insults. “It’s disgusting that people would single out one person and you have to say stuff about your race to get out of it,” Blondien said.”
Real noble stuff mate.
Again: yeesh.
On June 22, six bands were scheduled to play a gig at The Birmy. After I contacted them, and informed them of the boycott, three cancelled.
Final Warning, which played there on November 11 last year, has since agreed not to play any more gigs at The Birmy.
Two other bands — Distorted Truth and No Idea — in private correspondence, have since indicated that they will no longer be playing gigs at The Birmy.
The following bands have played multiple gigs at The Birmy since September 23, 2006:
1) Charter 77 (November 18, 2006, March 2, 2007);
2) Marching Orders (October 7, November 18, 2006, April 25, 2007);
3) Poverty Bay Goon (November 11, 2006, March 2, 2007);
4) Sewer Cider (July 7, September 29, 2007);
5) Slick 46 (October 7, November 18, 2006, March 2, April 25, 2007);
6) The Worst (November 18, 2006, April 25, July 7, September 29, 2007).
That’s not many, considering that The Birmy has a FREE function room — yes, that’s right folks, a FREE function room — and Melbourne has literally hundreds of bands.
And yeah, NOT playing The Birmy isn’t a hard, life-changing decision: it’s dead fucking easy.
That’s the point.
Oddly enough, none of the bands listed above have or are likely to play Vodafone Arena; on the other hand, self-evidently, they play The Birmy, and regularly.
That, also, is the point.
I think the way the world “seems” to you is pretty screwy Ben. But certainly, not playing The Birmy means, at the very least, that you’re not a scab. And for some, that’s really really hard.
Ah… er… um…
Bathtub full of power-tools?
Two things.
1) The gig Gary held at his pub last year (and in years previous) was organised by Blood & Honour Australia and the Southern Cross Hammerskins. It was held to commemorate the death of Ian Stuart Donaldson in 1993. In 1987, Stuart helped establish Blood & Honour in the UK; the Hammerskins were established in the same year, in Texas. Both have since grown to become international neo-Nazi networks. The links between the various groups are many, and a matter of public record. Blood Red Eagle, for example, played the twentieth anniversary Hammerskins gig in Portland, Oregon just a few days ago. They also played the ISD gig here in Melbourne on September 23 last year. This coming weekend, Fortress will be playing the ISD gig. The lead singer, Scott McGuinness, played a crucial role in establishing the Hammerskins in Australia. They’ve played numerous gigs throughout Europe and North America over the last 15 years or so, to large audiences of boneheads. The Bully Boys, a well-known band from Texas closely associated with the Hammerskins, played the ISD gig in Melbourne in 2004. This year, another band from overseas is scheduled to play. Members of both B&H and the Hammerskins have been involved in numerous assaults and murders, stretching over a 20-year period. I’ve documented some of them on my blog. Again, a matter of public record. They espouse neo-Nazism, and act accordingly, and according to their means and situation.
2) “…just as you have nothing to do with european anarchists killing police.”
Ouchies!
As an entree, when was the last time a European anarchist killed a member of the police Ben?
Won’t or can’t? You haven’t provided a single reason why you’re a scab Ben, other than to claim what scabs always do.
Lease,
I speak only for myself.
I went to The Birmy protest.
I didn’t go on the pub crawl.
I don’t know anything about O’Sullivan harassing girls at a gig.
I mean what I say.
Cheers,
@ndy.
Apologies if this has already been raised but, firstly; how can you be 100% sure that just because it’s not Gary’s pub on paper etc, he can be ‘sacked’ as manager. I know of plenty of venues where the owner’s name isn’t on anything legal.
Just a thought, but anyway, assuming your boycott proves effective and the Birmy loses $ and Gary gets the ass – does the thinking stop here? When the ‘New Management’ comes in, are they not gonna do what ‘New Managers’ do – e.g try and turn the joint into a fucken tapas bar. Where would that get anyone? The boneheads find another pub and everyone else loses one of the few venues we’re welcome at… nice one.
Red,
The legal situation inre The Birmy is the subject of an upcoming post.
As to what new management may do, I’ve no control over that, obviously. All things being equal, neither does anyone else, inre any pub or venue, anywhere. Equally obviously, this situation is not ideal, and is partly why, in parts of Europe, punks establish their own clubs and social centers, often squatted ones. Given the legal situation with regards occupying and making use of empty buildings in Australia in general (and Melbourne in particular), it’s more difficult to do so here, but not impossible. However, doing so does require organisation and ongoing commitment, and such commodities are not something to be found in abundance among fashion and yuppie punx. Much easier to just rely on businessmen for venues; even if said businessmen in question support neo-Nazi groups as well…
As for The Birmy, the building itself is heritage-listed, and subject to state government and local council regulation, so the uses to which it may be put are somewhat limited. Further, given that the market for pokies in the area is already saturated — and licenses expensive — gambling does not appear to be a realistic option; if it was, Gary would have told his “really good mates” in the punk scene to piss off a long time ago.
As I see it, The Birmy is in a great location, and under competent management, would make a great live venue. Certainly, the first thing I’d like to see after Gary gets the arse is a big night of fair dinkum, ‘Nazi punks fuck off!’, punk music!
More generally, however, the purpose of the boycott is not just directed at The Birmy, but at all owners and managers who are prepared to stoop so low as to allow neo-Nazi scum to use their premises, and to make money by so doing. This message is expressed in the only language businessmen understand: money. That is, support neo-Nazi groups, and your business will suffer a financial penalty, one far in excess of whatever meagre amount of income supporting the scum happens to generate. And even the stupidest businessman (Gary excepted) can be expected to understand that lesson.
I knew you wouldn’t agree with me, obviously.
Thanks for the Poison Idea info, great band. And if I was in their situation I wouldn’t play either. That was a specific reference to the gig organised under false pretences.
I said people would be prepared to protest against them, meaning B&H, but you said “it” making it sound like we would join you in protesting against the pub. Which do you think is more important? Out of some of these discussions it almost sounds like you have more of a problem with Gary and the Birmy than B&H. I doubt that to be true, but it really seems like that sometimes. I’m hardly the political activist you are and neither are lots of other punks. I would say that a lot punks would agree with me that we’re not going to be pushed out of a pub we enjoy going to by pressure from either you or nazis. You’ve dragged the punk scene into your shitfight when some people don’t really want to be involved. I mean a lot of punks would say that because B&H had their gig on a different night that has nothing to do with them and they don’t want to get involved. I mean being a punk isn’t all about fighting racism. You will say that’s apathetic, but that’s just because we won’t join your boycott. My life doesn’t revolve around fighting racism that’s for sure but it doesn’t mean I don’t care about it either. I would hope you wouldn’t tell me to fuck off if I joined a protest against B&H or any anti-racist protest. I don’t think telling me to fuck off would achieve anything for anyone.
Nice Oppressed video too. Cheers.
I enjoy drinking at the birmy, I’ve enjoyed playing there at various times, your holier than thou attitude is fucking pathetic and pretty much the same as the elitist attitudes I used to cop from yuppies driving their daddy’s BMWs. Instead of being an elitist tosser behind a keyboard trying to play dirt detective on anyone and everyone that has thoughts or opinions differing from yours, how bout you start fronting up at gigs and spouting your bullshit to people’s faces… oh that’s right it’s so easy from behind a keyboard assembled in china by child labour lucky to be fed a bowl of rice a day… oh and I’m not making any threats, I’m just saying you should be able to say to someone’s face what you spout about people on a computer. You seem quite intent to slag Bulldog Spirit and a range of other people at every opportunity yet have probably never met any of them and from what I read on this site you just seem to rely on half-baked second-hand misinformation. But then I guess rumours tend to carry more weight than fact with you.
Oh and Jason keep on fighting the good fight, ie, strike first and ask questions later, just like most US foreign policy (there’s something that a lot of punk stood firmly against politically). Doesn’t matter if you bash someone innocent in a case of mistaken identity on your holy quest I guess, I’m sure they will be comforted to know you had good intentions while they’re nursing their wounds… don’t they call that “collateral damage” in wartime…? Makes you no different to a British copper rousting someone under the sus law really.
Keep up the good work though @ndy, the shit you come out with is truly laughable and they say laughter is the best medicine.
Oh and I love the quotation of lyrics all the time… just like churchies sermonising from the fucking Bible… how nice.
Hello Denno,
“…half-baked second-hand misinformation… rumours…”
If you believe any of the facts I’ve presented are wrong, feel free to point how and where.
Cheers,
@ndy.
@ndy we have had it with your holier then thou attitude towards militant racists and neo-nazis in your city, just let them do their thing, elitist. This whole ‘fight fascism’ thing never did anything for anybody. It’s 2007, man. They have a right to free speech too. And while you’re at it, get a new keyboard. Cause that one is made with child labour. Until then we don’t want to hear it, andy. Or should i say, bourgeoisie.
On a serious note, if you really found racism disgusting, you would not play at that venue.
My apologies vents. I shall return with a free range keyboard made using 100% recycled, bio-degradable materials by union labour at a workers’ co-operative in Bangalore as part of a fair trade agreement between The People’s Republic of Brunswick and the peoples of that fair city. Now, if I could just find the keys to daddy’s BMW…
PS. “Oh and I love the quotation of lyrics all the time… just like churchies sermonising from the fucking Bible… how nice.”
My apologies to you too Denno.
I didn’t realise you were such a caustic critic of Conflict and Culture Club.
“Keep up the good work though @ndy, the shit you come out with is truly laughable and they say laughter is the best medicine.”
Denno, I read this and immediately thought of you.
Enjoy!
======
Teen Nazis ‘murdered disabled man’
Published: 10th October 2007 08:52 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/8742/
Two teenage boys have been charged with murdering a disabled 55-year-old man near Stockholm in June.
The man, from Upplands Väsby, 25km north of Stockholm, was kicked and hit by his attackers using baseball bats and iron bars on the afternoon of June 18th. After the first attack, the man’s tormentors returned on a further two occasions, the last being the following morning.
Police believe that the man was stabbed repeatedly as he lay dying.
“This is extreme violence. I have never seen anything like it. It took place on different occasions and they have had absolutely loads of time to think through their actions and come to their senses,” said Lars-Inge Franksson of Stockholm Police to SVT.
In addition to the boys charged with murder, a third boy has been charged with serious assault.
The suspects are members of the Nationalsocialistisk Front, a Swedish neo-Nazi group. Police found large amounts of extreme right-wing material on their computers, including films of assaults and murders.
The boys were arrested as they returned to the scene of the crime. A police officer noticed dried blood on their shoes. Among the evidence against the boys is a film, taken using a mobile phone, in which the boys assault their victim, after which they perform a Hitler salute.
======
“Nationalsocialistisk Front (NSF) was founded in Karlskrona in 1994. It consists of six county sections and six independent town sections.
They highlight the fact that they are now a political party, and that democracy will be abolished by parliamentary means. The party programme demands race biology protection measures, Sweden´s exit from the EU, repatriation of immigrants and tax relief for large and genetically healthy families. The NSF ran for parliamentary and municipal council seats in six municipalities in the 2006 election. They won just over 1,400 votes in the parliamentary election and did not take any municipal seats.
Their main activities are propaganda dissemination, public meetings, demonstrations and internal meetings. Several of their leading representatives committed politically motivated offences in 2006.”
Naturally enough, in former years the NSF maintained close relations with B&H Sweden.
Let me see… in the black corner you have Andy, arguing that race/gender/sexuality shouldn’t be a barrier to walking down the street safely. Andy argues that doing nothing is not the same as being neutral, as everyone has a stake in making society what it is.
In the blue corner, you have Nazis, staunchly defending the Master Race (but not hassling anyone), killing people (but not being all preachy about it), wanting to set up a fascist society where a few dominate all unless you can prove to them that you’ll just stay out of their way, in which case you will be left alone provided, of course, you are white, straight and an able-bodied male that shares their world view. As luck would have it, everyone is like that, except for Andy and his supporters.
This makes Andy an elitist, as he has an opinion that may or may not be popular. Just like the Church, he uses quotes to illustrate a point. You know who else had opinions and used quotes? Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Dracula and the USA. Join the fucking dots!
As I understand it, Andy’s points are invalid because a child who eats rice made his keyboard (probably) and unless he is outside of all of these nasty impure practices, he cannot advocate a remedy.
Andy is causing a split in the punk scene – a politically neutral group noted for its social harmony – with his opinions and facts that punks are forced, FORCED mind you, to listen to. The fucking sneaky bastard. Now he has the gall to say that a pub that sponsors Blood & Honour and the Hammerskins should not be a place where people drink or play music, leaving bands with mere dozens of other venues and a paltry 50 or so inner-city bars to choose from. As a further result of Andy’s actions, some punks are considering a do-it-yourself approach to gigs. This would wreck the beautiful Birmingham Hotel and its admirable 1:7 ratio of bonehead-to-punk gigs in the last twelve months (who among us hasn’t hosted a group of racists lately?), if not the punk scene itself.
Worse than that, practically eight or so punks have been through the trauma of having to think, when they explicitly told everyone they don’t like to do that (did Andy not even consult the patches on their jackets!?), and then, if you can believe that such a thing is possible in the 21st Century, they were made to justify their actions over the Internet.
In a final, cruel twist, Andy has been using facts willy-nilly. Well sir, if you continue to discriminate against those who don’t have any facts themselves, you’re no better than the Nazis you claim to oppose. Which you don’t. Because you are one. Take that, oppressor!
Who is this guy anyway? Who is he to say who is racist and who isn’t? It’s like the time he told me I wasn’t a fireman; just because I stay at home and play Street Fighter Alpha 3 and don’t actually fight fires, it doesn’t mean I think buildings accidentally being burned down is okay. If there are fires raging but aren’t burning me, then why should I give up my chances of defeating M. Bison? Think about it, people.
Maybe it’s time people fought fire with fire (or play Street Fighter); I think anyone who sees Andy for the brutal elitist that he is should boycott the Internet or, even better, stay neutral and do absolutely nothing, but be really “in your face” about it. This would show that Andy hasn’t won and surely fix whatever problems there are with racists and their exact equivalent, the anti-racists, in Melbourne.
Brilliant. Somebody pass me a uni degree.
Wow, you’d think it was complicated.
Neo-nazis are pretty marginal in Australia, as are the kind of organised far right groups whose stated desires involve the murder of people for a variety of offenses such as being gay or not white enough or actively politically opposed to neo-nazism.
Despite their marginality, however, these groups do exist, and those involved can individually or collectively practice their politics by, for example, surrounding, capturing a not-white woman on the street and forcing her to refer to herself as a ‘black cunt’ in order to be let go. Or surrounding and being threatening toward someone at a gig because they are not white, as a group of Nazis did to a (not-white, anti-fascist) friend of mine (an incident Liz T. has previously discussed on this blog). In general, consciously and deliberately, these political tendencies seek to promote a racist, homophobic culture and hope that this will make it possible for them to pursue a violently racist, homophobic agenda.
Though marginal at the moment, such groups seek to recruit and to grow, in the hope that this will allow them to better undertake such actions.
I want these groups to stay marginal. I am opposed to them on principle and regard them as a personal threat, as people who overtly and repeatedly declare their desire that people should be hurt who are, for example, jewish, queer, and politically radical and opposed to fascism. Since I am all of these things, and most of my friends fall into one or more of the categories of people routinely targetted for violence by the international neo-nazi networks with which many of Melbourne’s bonehead/fascist idiots are affiliated, I feel a strong personal stake in this question. Sites such as Stormfront define themselves in relation to their violent hostility to jews; they say that they want to kill me, and I don’t think that they are just joking.
As such, I don’t want such political tendencies to be assisted in their efforts to recruit and grow, and to promote their political projects based on my death and the death of my friends. The Birmingham Hotel is one of the few places that I know of in Melbourne which have sought to make money from knowingly and repeatedly providing spaces for neo-nazis to try to do just this; to try to escape the political and social margins, to become ‘acceptable’, just more people exercising their free speech and pursuing their goals of racist terror, amongst other things.
Despite the opposition of people who also wish to see such tendencies as small, ineffective and marginal as possible, who don’t want pubs making cash from eg. neo-nazi events celebrating Hitler’s birthday on the same streets they have to walk along, the pub has refused to adopt a policy of not allowing nazi nights. The management, Gary, has acted, as some do in the comments on this blog, as if neo-nazi nights seeking to recruit racist would-be killers are just another niche market from which to make cash.
I’m not really impressed by the political strategy involved in suggestion that people ‘reclaim’ the pub by holding heaps of gigs there and thus making heaps of money for the venue even if it continues to have neo-nazi nights whenever the neo-nazis want to make another attempt to promote themselves, recruit and grow, organise themselves and solidify a violently racist culture.
It really doesn’t seem a lot to ask that a hotel not try to make money from people trying to increase their opportunities to promote neo-nazism. All of these people who are so more offended that someone would try to boycott such a venue than they are offended that groups would be having gigs in the venue to try to help create a neo-nazi movement, these people so contemptuous of the boycott, none of them seem to really think that this is a problem, or at least not one which they believe requires even the smallest effort or sacrifice on their part.
And it seems revealing that those who oppose this boycott while making lame gestures toward believing that neo-nazis should not be allowed to grow as organised groups or semi-organised gangs (or at least that it would be nice if the nazis did not grow) make no serious proposals as to what would help with this goal. Denying such groups places in which to try to recruit and grow and promote their racism and fascism seems like one concrete possibility, one area of contestation in the struggle to frustrate the desire of these tendencies to develop their capacities to act. And historically, such as in Germany from the beginnings of the nazi growth to the nazi takeover, people felt the need to try to prevent the nazi use of hotels and other spaces to organise, socialise, recruit, etcetera.
Beyond the odd street attack, neo-nazis are not a big threat here at the moment. And with just a little commitment, solidarity, effort, we can help to keep them out in the cold, alone and pathetic losers that they are.
And the people I know who went on the crawl ended up at the Arthouse not the Birmingham.
must get pretty frustrating this whole boycott thing. all the “punks” that turned up to your little protest thing were all drinking there the next week. most of the bands that said they wont play there would’ve probably never played there anyway, must’ve been hard convincing them. plus they’re all shit bands anyway. and i’m sure you got a whole army of dreadlocked, stinky hippies to raise their peace-loving fists in the air. shouting their words of rebellion and lack of hygiene. confused as to why nobody takes their profound existence seriously.
do you feel as though your efforts are being rewarded? because it is business as usual down at the old birmingham hotel. five or six bands practice there every week, playing gigs there and other venues around town.
so what have you achieved? isd might not be at the birmy this year. but it is going ahead elsewhere. you can remove all buildings that house these meetings but you’ll never remove the hatred from the peoples heads.
as far as no idea and distorted truth joining your boycott in secret. how bold. fucking pissweak if you ask me. making a stand through secret correspondence. fuck that. if you believe so strongly about something do it. but dont do it in secret. these people supporting you sound just like you. spinless, doing it all in secret. fuck em all. enjoy your boycott and your scout hall gigs. see how long you all last in your holy crusade.
Ready To Fight
We won’t take any shit and we’re not about to leave
Just cause you don’t like who and what we want to be
Who are you to say what’s wrong what’s right
If it’s what it takes, we’re ready to fight
Ready to fight, ready to fight
Ready to fight, fight, fight, fight, fight
Dear Ben,
You haven’t answered any of my questions. I’ll repeat them in case you missed them, although I suspect that the reason you haven’t is because doing so is something of which you’re not capable:
1) You claim that I’m “attacking innocent people with no political agenda”. Who are these people, and why are they so ‘innocent’?
2) You claim that I’ve stated “half-truths, hearsay and innuendo”. What are these half-truths?
3) You wrote something about Patrick O’Sullivan harassing two girls at a gig. As I stated, “I know absolutely nothing about this. Feel free to elaborate.” Also: what does this have to do with me or the boycott? As far as I can tell, the answer is nothing. Again, feel free to elaborate.
4) When was the last time a European anarchist killed a member of the police? How does the record of anarchist murders of police in Europe compare with the neo-Nazi murders of punks over the course of the last twenty years? Have you any idea at all what you’re talking about? Or do you just pluck things out of the air?
In answer to your questions:
In general, no I’m not frustrated. In fact, I think — and as I’ve already indicated elsewhere — that over the course of the last twelve months, the boycott has been a moderate success. Thus, while you may boast that “it is business as usual down at the old birmingham hotel” and that “five or six bands practice there every week, playing gigs there and other venues around town”, the fact is that there has been a real decrease in the number of gigs actually played at the venue, and a subsequent decrease in trade.
Thus, as I stated, there has been approximately seven ‘punk’ gigs at The Birmy over the course of the last 12 months or so:
2006 : October 7, November 11, November 18
2007 : March 2, April 25, July 7, September 29
That’s really not that many, and I’m convinced more than 7 ‘punk’ gigs took place at The Birmy during the 12 months previous to September 23, 2006.
Further:
one gig has been cancelled;
one band (Final Warning) that played one of these gigs (July 7) has indicated that they won’t be playing any further gigs at the venue;
two others (Distorted Truth and No Idea) have suggested that they won’t be either;
the remaining, local bands — not including the bands that played on the pub crawl — number nine in total (Bulldog Spirit, Charter 77, Marching Orders, Poverty Bay Goon, Sewer Cider, Slick 46, The Boots, The Worst, Wot Rot);
and you play in two of them (Bulldog Spirit and Marching Orders).
In addition, I’ve received complaints that when gigs have taken place, they’re less well-attended than they have been in the past. For example, Chunga “anarchy is a fag” from The Worst reckons “People hate [me]… because they are showing up to the Birmy expecting a fun night with bands… and they show up to an empty pub because some loser is trying to boycott the place”. This also, obviously, has lead to a decrease in trade. That some have also complained that some locals aren’t all that friendly with regards patrons at The Birmy (some men with very short hair have even complained of being threatened with being bashed for doing so) only adds to the more generally unattractive ambiance surrounding Gary’s business.
Finally, you obviously inhabit a very small world, but the word has spread and is being spread in diverse ways among diverse groups of people, from the local Koori community, trade unions, anarchist and socialist groups, peace, environmental and women’s movements, to the local music industry, ethnic groups, local business and council, and so on. You really think it ‘business as usual’ for The Good Ol’ Birmingham Hotel simply because the same bands that have been practicing at the pub for x number of years continue to do so?!?
If so, then you’re a fool.
Further, your immaturity, both emotional, political and musical, leads you to make not just plain silly and unsupported claims, but to engage in gross exaggerations (“The Birmingham Hotel has done more for the punk scene than anyone and anywhere else”) and to wildly under-estimate the loathing people have for neo-Nazis and their collaborators like Gary and The Birmy. At which point, I have a few more questions for you:
1) Why do you think B&H and the SCHS organise their events in secret?
2) Why do you think Gary lied about a neo-Nazi gig taking place at The Birmy?
3) Do you think it might possibly be because both understand that Nazism and preaching racial genocide isn’t exactly popular?
4) That if such activities are known about more fully, they may face opposition, and possible retaliation?
I think the answers to those questions are pretty obvious.
On the whole, the impression you’re making is that of a young, insecure, and slightly desperate young man, very much out of their depth, who really doesn’t understand much outside of the opinions of his fairly small circle of friends, all or most of whom simply reflect his disembrained version of hardcore, masculinist values, attitudes and behaviours right back at him.
Normally, I wouldn’t care all that much. Your kind are numerous. But in choosing to side with Gary, The Birmy and neo-Nazism over anything and anyone else — not to mention playing in a band with a deadset bonehead like Joel — as well as writing the kind of nonsense you have here, you have no right to complain if I continually portray you as the foolish young boy that you are.
Cheers and beers,
@ndy.
Why don’t you come down to the Espy tomorrow night and share your passionate beliefs and opinions with those you have a problem with…
I don’t get why you want those who drink at the Birmy and play there to move somewhere else just ‘cos on occasion, a nazi meeting/gig will be held at the same place. Does that mean, the British Crown is a nazi venue too ‘cos they drink there sometimes? Does that mean every shop/restaurant/supermarket a nazi buys from regularly we should stay away from? …if a nazi lives in my suburb, should i move?
I thought you people were all about equality and unity.
I don’t for one second believe in anything nazis stand for but they are human beings too, they should not be discriminated against due to their beliefs just ‘cos the majority does not agree with them. They are equal to you and me, have freedom of speech, and should be allowed to drink where they want.
I’m not right in what i say and neither are you. You can’t say whose opinion is wrong and whose is right. Your not gonna stop the people that enjoy hanging out there from going there. Why don’t you just leave it alone, it’s not affecting you at all.
And please don’t reply with a 5000 word essay, i won’t read it cos i actually have a life outside of the computer. And secondly, try not to miss the point this time, you seem to have a habit of doing so and bringing up irrelevant information that is not important.
Anyway, can’t wait for the Bulldog Spirit gig this weekend, wish it was at the Birmy though.
I don’t for one second believe in anything nazis stand for but they are human beings too, they should not be discriminated against due to their beliefs just ‘cos the majority does not agree with them. They are equal to you and me, have freedom of speech, and should be allowed to drink where they want.
^ You can’t be serious with this liberal shite. They are fucking nazis. Actually even liberals don’t tolerate nazis. You are either very sheltered and naive or have floated over from stormfront.
Distorted Truth have not joined the boycott of the Birmy. We are not playing there any time soon, but we’re not playing anywhere except for one gig at the barleycorn. We still rehearse every week at the Birmy. No member of Distorted Truth supports racism or any form of hatred. And to BEN, a phone call to ask one of us if we’d boycotted the Birmy before reacting to dribble on a web site would of been nice.
Anyway hope you all have a nice day.
PS. Get outside a bit. Sitting in front of a computer all the time is bad for your eyes.
Kirt,
This is what you wrote to me:
Call me crazy, but when you write “we’re not playing at the birmy any more”, I interpret that as meaning “we’re not playing at the birmy any more”.
yes we are not playing there at the moment but in a previous e-mail I also said we are not boycotting the birmy
Kirt,
There was no previous email. This is a subsequent message:
Distorted Truth : NAZI PIECE OF SHIT
Lease, Lease, Lease: As has been said many times before, their beliefs aren’t the problem. It’s their actions. Harbouring fantasies of genetic superiority must be really ace if you have no achievements of your own to be proud of. Bashing a 55-y.o. disabled man to death is a different matter.
Short of a brain injury, I literally cannot understand how someone can go to the effort of making a comment on a blog, yet completely sidestep any actual thought on the subject. Then, claiming that no-one can judge whether an opinion can be right or wrong while claiming Andy’s opinion is wrong, arguing that you, Lease, also do not believe your own argument. What the hell…?
As someone who supports the boycott, the only thing I can grapple with is this:
Your[sic] not gonna stop the people that enjoy hanging out there from going there.
True, insofar as those capable of understanding the argument, but choose to scab anyway, will do so. Now you’ll have to find someone who disputes that. Good luck. For your next adventure, look up the difference between “boycott” and “picket”.
Why don’t you just leave it alone, it’s not affecting you at all.
It is affecting me, that is why I don’t.
Now it’s my fuckin’ turn to quote some song lyrics. Sure, it isn’t that relevant, except that it’s about shooting Nazis out of the sky.
Aces High – Iron Maiden.
There goes the siren that warns of the air raid
Then comes the sound of the guns sending flak
Out for the scramble we’ve got to get airborne
Got to get up for the coming attack.
Jump in the cockpit and start up the engines
Remove all the wheelblocks theres no time to waste
Gathering speed as we head down the runway
Gotta get airborne before its too late.
Running, scrambling, flying
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die
Run, live to fly, fly to live. aces high.
Move in to fire at the mainstream of bombers
Let off a sharp burst and then turn away
Roll over, spin round and come in behind them
Move to their blindsides and firing again.
Bandits at 8 o’clock move in behind us
Ten me-109s out of the sun
Ascending and turning our spitfires to face them
Heading straight for them I press down my guns
Rolling, turning, diving
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die
Run, live to fly, fly to live, aces high.
Up the Irons!!!
Lease,
For approximately the same reasons Ben’s mate Joel is unlikely to attend a reggae gig at the Aborigines’ Advancement League in Thornbury if invited to by one of the performer’s girlfriends; especially not after returning from a European tour with Deaths Head, in which the band played their classic sing-a-long ‘More Dead Niggers’ as the encore at every night’s performance, and in the knowledge that a number of other performers and their fans had threatened to do him harm should he appear.
In brief: because I’m not stupid.
Uh-huh.
A suggestion:
Think about it.
No. Nor does it explain why, earlier today, on another thread, you wrote the following:
In other words, in the space of just over 24 hours, you’ve contradicted yourself. On the one hand, yesterday afternoon, you implied that Joel — the former drummer in Deaths Head, Fortress, Ravenous and (apparently) Bail Up! — couldn’t possibly be a ‘nazi’ because he and six or seven other men (with the presumed support of several dozen other men and women) asked the Very Reverend Patrick O’Sullivan to leave your party, ostensibly because he was a ‘nazi’. What was O’Sullivan’s crime? He turned up. By himself. He “expected” people to talk to him. He preached.
And?
On the other hand, according to you, this was sufficient grounds to ask him to leave — presumably in the apparent knowledge that if he didn’t leave of his own volition, he would be ejected, by a large group of men.
Now consider, for a moment, the case of ‘Blondien’.
On the night of the neo-Nazi gig at the pub you would dearly love to see your boyfriend’s band play at, she was surrounded on Johnston Street by a group of six or seven men. They detained her, and called her names. They then refused to let her go, until she agreed to describe herself as a ‘black cunt’. Naturally enough, she did. A month later, this woman joined a protest outside the pub in question — the pub you would dearly love to see your boyfriend’s band play at.
Put yourself in her shoes, just for a moment, and read yours and other people’s statements on the subject of the boycott.
See above.
“You people”?
That’s actually kinda funny. You sound like a completely uncomprehending politician’s wife, looking down her nose, aghast, as on her husband’s behalf she remonstrates with a group of scruffy-looking demonstrators… Incidentally “April 10, 2007 — MSNBC and CBS radio turned down the dial on Don Imus yesterday, suspending him hours after he made another racial blunder – addressing the Rev. Al Sharpton and a key black congresswoman as “you people”.”
I’m not questioning your beliefs.
I frankly don’t care what you believe.
I don’t care if someone thinks ZOG rules the world, but that wearing a tinfoil helmet will keep THEM from stealing their thoughts.
I even don’t care that Joel’s mate Jesse loves to imagine himself dressed in an SS uniform, machine-gunning Jewish children to death.
What I do care about is doing what I can to create additional problems for groups like B&H and the SCHS to assemble and to organise. I don’t do this just ‘cos they constitute “a minority” — so do fans of Bulldog Spirit and Marching Orders (a tiny one). I do this in order to prevent their growth, and to make it more difficult for them to make inroads into the broader culture: white, working-class youth sub-cultures in particular.
I could elaborate further, but I’m aware that you’ve requested I keep things as simple as possible so that there’s some possibility you may actually understand what I’m saying. So instead I’ll simply note that your claim that ‘nazis’ “should be allowed to drink where they want” is patently false. If it were true, you wouldn’t have expressed your appreciation for Joel supposedly removing Patrick from the British Crown.
No. Yes. No. No. Yes.
Ha! That’s also funny.
Seriously though Lease: grow up.
Tee hee! Tee hee hee!
I just don’t get it. First that Chunga bloke and now this. Doesn’t it take effort to avoid basic information and post something like that? Couldn’t that same effort be used to mount an argument? I get the sentiment of what he’s saying, I guess. It’s just so damn odd. (“I don’t believe you, I don’t believe me. Nazis are a minority, and you should love all minorities.” I wonder how he feels about pedophiles.)
I know this sounds weird, but I knew a guy in high-school who had never heard of or seen Nutra Grain in his life. In the end, we figured he must have always been out of the room when an ad came on or something. Maybe Lease was always out of the room, period.
(Lease is Ben’s g/f.)
Oh. I was, um, using the royal “he” or something. I stand by everything else.
Rubbish. It’s time for you to face the truth Lumpen:
You’re just as bad as the Nazis.
STOP OPPRESSING ME WITH YOUR OPINIONS!
Did you see that everyone? He just oppressed me. Let’s just agree that everyone in the world is always wrong and that scientific knowledge is arrived at through a series of coincidental guesses. And if you oppress me again, I will turn your unconditional commitment to unity and equality back at you using my kung-fu-like logic.
Oh, so what you’re really saying is that it’s perfectly “OK” for the Japanese to keep the “foreign devils” out of their country, but when some ordinary, fair dinkum Aussie bloke exercises his RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH and sends a text message to the mate of a black-skinned youth he’s just bashed saying “Wats up u black dogs ya mate jst got knocked da fuck out we jst jacked him welcome 2 australia u jigaboo fucks melton blood gang we from melton u peices of shit” that’s supposed to be racist?
Political correctness gone mad!
Next you’ll be taking away my t-shirts and hairspray and claiming that ‘punk’ has something to do with ‘youth rebellion’… fascist!
(Please note that I do not support racism in any form. We still rehearse every week at the Birmy. The Birmingham Hotel has done more for the punk scene than anyone and anywhere else. And secondly, try not to miss the point this time, you seem to have a habit of doing so and bringing up irrelevant information that is not important.)
I went into a milk bar the other day and a Nazi was about to be served first, so I said, “look a diversion (that guy’s wearing an original golden party badge)”. That way I could jump the queue and not feel guilty about buying something from the milk bar.
I once saw a Nazi drop his wallet… All I could do was say to him, “Quick, pick it up”. As if I (let alone anyone else) should be touching his wallet. Who knows where that money came from?
A question: If a Nazi band plays at the Birmy and nobody shows up to hear their racist songs, does that mean their songs (performed on that particular occasion) are still racist?
The point is: “A fanatic is someone who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject”.
so you did your homework andy, such a clever [sexy] little boy.
my apologies to all the members of distorted truth and no idea that weren’t involved in the ‘secret correspondence’.
i feel like an idiot for believing anything this [sexy] fuckwit has to say.
i also regret ever dignifying any of this [sexy] shit with a response.
i’m tired of discussing it and hearing about it.
strive onwards andy [sex machine]. fight the good fight (peacefully)…
1) The age of the universe, in physics, is the time elapsed between the Big Bang and the present day. Current observations suggest that this is about 13.7 billion years, with an uncertainty of about /-200 million years.
2) Based on the latest mortality rates, a boy born in Australia in 2005 was expected to live to 78.5 years, on average, while a girl would be expected to live to 83.3 years, on average. However, a boy and girl aged 15 in 2005 would be expected to live to ages 79.1 and 83.9 years, respectively.
3) I am a passionate seeker after Truth and a not less passionate enemy of the malignant fictions used by the “Party of Order”, the official representatives of all turpitudes, religious, metaphysical, political, judicial, economic, and social, present and past, to brutalise and enslave the world; I am a fanatical lover of Liberty; considering it as the only medium in which can develop intelligence, dignity, and the happiness of man; not official “Liberty”, licensed, measured and regulated by the State, a falsehood representing the privileges of a few resting on the slavery of everybody else; not the individual liberty, selfish, mean, and fictitious advanced by the school of Rousseau and all other schools of bourgeois Liberalism, which considers the rights of the individual as limited by the rights of the State, and therefore necessarily results in the reduction of the rights of the individual to zero.
No, I mean the only liberty which is truly worthy of the name, the liberty which consists in the full development of all the material, intellectual and moral powers which are to be found as faculties latent in everybody, the liberty which recognises no other restrictions than those which are traced for us by the laws of our own nature; so that properly speaking there are no restrictions, since these laws are not imposed on us by some outside legislator, beside us or above us; they are immanent in us, inherent, constituting the very basis of our being, material as well as intellectual and moral; instead, therefore, of finding them a limit, we must consider them as the real conditions and effective reason for our liberty.
4) The point is:
Another fine timing for a step into line
For four budding young stars who’ve just found the time
An old tune and shit words, as long as they rhyme
Well just watch them boys because they can’t fail this time
Well I’ve heard all the screams of another barmy army
But who sits in hotels with champagne and salami?
It only leaves you to be the one who’s barmy
You’re being led on to make a superstars’ fortune
Yeah, we live in dead cities, and the streets are grey
But I don’t need Top of the Pops to make me think that way
I can see this rebellion on my TV screen
But no sign of a future for you and me
A slight reflection of the past, but that didn’t last
Because the people who mattered weren’t rolled in the cast
They’re lining up another lot, all idols who
Will be nailing down the coffin on me and you
You tell me about the Conflict barmy army
Well, excuse me if I laugh, but I think it’s rather funny
That when the businessman farts the punters go running
We are just the latest pile of shit; can’t you see what’s coming?
The businessmen whisper from backroom thrones
Their long grasping tentacles are hungry and strong
Top chart hits and in future, we can’t go wrong
But it’s only their wallets that get fat on our songs
Does it really matter about the businessman side?
I don’t really give a fuck, if punk’s dead or alive
Top chart hits and future, they can do that for you
But just ask this question, is it false or is it true?
I know it’s always a bad idea to take up a fool’s argument, but…
Anyone who argues that the boycott is being called just because the Birmingham serves alcohol to fascists is either a liar or too stupid to understand the argument that has been put forward ad nauseum. I’m willing to entertain the possibility that some might also be hopelessly ignorant.
Even though it should be obvious, I will point out the difference between using the same pub as an anonymous Nazi and going to the Birmingham Hotel.
Nazis drinking at your pub (or buying mars bars from your milk bar) is typically a passive or unwitting action. Hosting their meetings, sponsoring white supremacist music and supporting their actions is an active, conscious decision to support racism. It has been well established that this is the case with the Birmingham and its management therefore they can be held responsible for these actions.
In the face of these facts, it should be obvious, but is apparently difficult for some to understand, that if you feel that racism isn’t a basis for a society worth living in, you shouldn’t support racist venues. Otherwise, and justifiably, you can be accused of being full of shit and a coward.
I would argue that boycotting the Birmingham is a fairly simple way of opposing these racist groups, and a step toward creating a music scene where skin colour isn’t a barrier to going into a venue.
What I’d be interested in hearing from the likes of Ben, Jason, Lease and Chunga is why they are so adamant that the Birmingham, under the management of Gary, should be allowed to hold racist meetings and gigs and still be considered a venue worth supporting. What am I missing here?
Some more inspirational lyrics:
Class war in effect
Autonomist populace hardcore to the death
Anti fascista, John Carpenter creature
Terrorising grooves made to reach ya
A Love Song – Vents
‘Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle.’
WHAT ABOUT ME??? IT ISN’T FAIR!
LISTEN ‘ERE tWISTY mCtWISTALOT – the ppl here who aren’t playing boycotts have NOT said that the Birmy, under the management of twitchy Gary or anyone else, SHOULD be allowed to hold racist meetings and gigs. It’s pretty childish to twist everyone’s words so we’re all apparently supporters of Nazism by default just coz we don’t agree with you.
Many punks just don’t wanna be fucken moral crusaders – perhaps because punk has never been about attacking ppl on the internet coz they have the audacity to think for themselves… maybe because if we really did take something like this seriously, we’d have no time to do anything else. I dunno what the personal issue with Twitchy is, but there must be one because really this doesn’t make sense. In fact, it seems Andy may be the one who picks and chooses what counts as racist from day to day. I’m reading here that it’s ok to support shops that actively seek business from racists, it’s ok in fact, to support anyplace that serves Nazis, sells ’em their merch, etc as long as we dutifully avoid the evil Birmy. I mean fer fux sake! Half of what makes crustfux so laughable is there’s always a fucken hardline, there’s 100 rules for what’s ok to touch, eat, wear, listen to – but while they dumpster dive to protest against having to pay for food it’s all caught on their Chinese-made Sony handycam. If people wanna take on the Nazis of Melbourne, I commend them, but it’s not about sitting behind a keyboard being a wanker. Take it a little further than halfway and while you’re not going to the Birmy, cross Smoke Dreams off yer list too… oh, there’ll be no more drinking anywhere near the Yarra, no shopping at any of the many Army Disposals at our… er… disposal, and come to think of it – no more playing on the internet either.
“OH, but it’s different, Gary supports meetings its not just buying shit.”
OK, now I’ve heard it all when the so-called anti-fascists make excuses for the Nazis. The powers behind the internet knew there’d be racist websites, they are happily hosted. Places like Smoke Dreams and Disposals stores do not stock iron cross patches and swastika jewelery by accident. You may call me weak but really I’m just lazy. Not as lazy as Andy tho,’ coz I will actually go out there and confront the things I have issue with – in person – using my real name. Lazy yes, because I am not a big fan of boneheads or racism, but I’d rather confront that beast when it enters my world than make a career path out of hypocrisy.
(P.S. I hope yer all happy. I’m gonna get re-barred from the Birmy now for calling Gary ‘Twitchy’.)
Kudos to you, RS, for being the first to actually address anything remotely resembling the issue at hand.
It’s pretty childish to twist everyone’s words so we’re all apparently supporters of Nazism by default just coz we don’t agree with you.
Not by default, but by inaction, and even then, well, not really. You’ve taken your stand, that’s fine, but I think it strengthens the hand of Nazis in Melbourne by allowing them to act with impunity. This is not the same as accusing someone of being a Nazi sympathiser. My question was as to why these gigs and meetings do not matter to them, and why the boycott isn’t an appropriate response.
I’m reading here that it’s ok to support shops that actively seek business from racists, it’s ok in fact, to support anyplace that serves Nazis, sells ‘em their merch, etc as long as we dutifully avoid the evil Birmy.
Then you read wrong. Very, very wrong. I’m all for pubs that kick Nazis out as soon as they rear their ugly mugs (as happened recently), but I made the distinction between passive action and active support. You really think there’s no difference between unknowingly serving say, Jim Saleam, a pot of Coopers and lending your pub for a Blood and Honour gathering?
Compared to the actions of Gary, Smoke Dreams are relatively benign. Smoke Dreams, at best, cater to a fascination with social transgression and not the serious promotion of race hatred (that and ripping off kids with $60 death metal t-shirts).
If anyone took your definition of what constitutes support for fascism of course they would be busy 24/7 and, given the small number of boneheads, most of this activity would be a waste of time. I think you are trying to characterise myself or Andy as believing this because you think it will serve your argument to portray us as fanatical or irrational. FAIL.
As Andy has written elsewhere, boycotting the Birmingham is a justifiable reaction and a realistic and achievable goal which has been met with moderate success. Is it the only thing that is being done? No. Are there better thing to do with your life? Yes.
It’s not as though I sit at home, commending myself for not being at the Birmingham. As I wrote previously, I can see why it is a harder choice for others, but I still think you should boycott it regardless.
I dunno what the personal issue with Twitchy is, but there must be one because really this doesn’t make sense.
Nope. I think people like Gary should be held responsible for their actions. His role in all this has been well-documented. I think your masterful attempt to reduce this to a personal conflict between some Internet fanatics and the manager of a crappy pub is another FAIL.
I’d rather confront that beast when it enters my world than make a career path out of hypocrisy.
The charge of “hypocrite” only makes sense if you believe I (or Andy?) were apologising for Nazis, which is patently not the case. Hooray! You’re too lazy to do anything about Nazis attacking others. That must be an incredible burden to carry for someone who doesn’t like racism. As I’ve also said elsewhere, this is more of an amusing distraction than a career.
If you remain unconvinced about the Birmingham, that’s unfortunate, but I can live with it. Bring some facts to the table, though, not your problems with crusty punks’ lifestyles. You are yet to demonstrate why going to the Birmingham is a good idea.
“Mourn not the dead that in the cool earth lie, but rather mourn the apathetic, throng the coward and the meek who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong, and dare not speak.” ~ Ralph Chaplin (1887–1961)
I guess that every band that uses the iron cross (pretty much now a universally accepted symbol of rocknroll) is a nazi too, better boycott lucky13 clothes, better boycott clothes made by forced child labour in asian sweatshops too, oh look Emperor @ndy has no fucking clothes!
Better boycott everything and live in your own perfect utopian world inside your head, and if it gets too mundane theres always LSD… chroming or glue. Oh look better yet why dont you boycott life.
I saw Marching Orders at the Espy last night, they were great and you know what? I didnt see one cannister of zyklon B! All I saw was some old friends, lots of empty beer bottles and a bunch of people that have a fucking good time. Now why would I want to boycott that???
That’s silly, Denno. The iron cross long predated Nazi Germany, and unlike the swastika it has retained a strong non-nazi symbolism. It is still used by the German military today. And as you’ve pointed out, most people associate it with rock music rather than nazism.
“why would I want to boycott [Marching Orders]???”
Um, cos their singer is a neonazi cockhead? It’s not that difficult.
andyyyyyy come outtt annnddd plaaayyyyyyyyyyyy…
Shit, I didn’t know it wasn’t possible to get clothes not made with child labour.
123456,
An unfortunate choice of cinematic reference. If you’re Luther, then I, naturally am a Warrior.
And The Warriors win in The End.
Can you dig it?
Drums, flags, banners, insignia, loyalty oaths. People marching just for marching’s sake. That’s the inspiration needed before attending any nazi meetings at the Birmy or anywhere else. Understanding the rhetoric (if it ever happens) comes much later than the initial security uniformity provides. Perhaps it’s these early stages that should be addressed. Y’know, before brain death takes over. Creating awareness is more likely to be effective than the lost cause of keeping track of ISD gigs. To me that seems unproductive. The only productive thing left to do by that stage is kick the shit out of them. Because trying to demonstrate the folly in their politics obviously won’t work. While you waste your time with futile outdated issues like what happened at the Birmy over a year ago, Patrick successfully recruits another youth because he is out on the street, while everyone else is sitting behind their computers.
I was originally all for boycotting the Birmy because the ISD meeting/gig was only one week before the 2006 punk pub crawl. It was significant then. It was in the forefront of people’s minds (well, it should have been). Punks contemplating going to the Birmy on the pub crawl thinking, fuck, the nazi meeting was only at the birmy last week, how could I go there without feeling like a mug? But now the issue is gone. It’s over, time to move on. Otherwise, how far back in time do we go? We could find out that there was a nazi meeting at the Birmy in the 30s. I could understand if it was happening there again this year, but it’s not. Come up with something relevant that can make a difference, then you will probably get more support than you would believe.
If this thread gets over 100 postings, I’m going to name my first child “Batman”.
(If you get that joke, you’re a dork.)
Lumpen:
I think I can guess the name of your first child.
Jason:
What’s required for attendance at a neo-Nazi meeting is actually pretty simple. First, an interest in so doing. Secondly, knowing where and when to go.
Anyone interested in attending the ISD gig in 2006, 2005 (but not 2004) and in years previous, and who were in contact with the relevant associations, knew that they could make their way to The Birmy in Fitzroy. This year — presumably as a result, at least in part, of adverse publicity surrounding the gig last year — it’s the turn of the Melbourne Knights Football Club in North Sunshine to understand that the people of Melbourne, while sports-loving, really don’t take to neo-Nazism. In other words, while I’m sure that “Drums, flags, banners, insignia [and] loyalty oaths” have their place, they’re far from being necessary.
In any event, given that the location of this year’s event has been established — for which credit is once again due to the wascally Agent Gerbil — it’s incorrect to state that “keeping track of ISD gigs” is a lost cause. In fact, as a result of the attendant publicity, I expect that the Melbourne Knights may be in a spot of bother for knowingly hosting a neo-Nazi event organised by local branches of two notorious international neo-Nazi networks. This is especially the case given that — unlike the Elks’ Lodge in Portland last weekend, which immediately cancelled the Hammerskins’ Hammerfest upon learning that a group of violent boneheads were assembling there — the Melbourne Knights have denied and even defended the holding of the gig on their premises.
But on this subject, I expect much more is to come.
In general, from what I can gather, what you’re claiming is that by the stage someone expresses an interest in attending a ‘Nazi’ meeting, they’re essentially a ‘lost cause’, and fit only for a good beating. That may be so — I’m not convinced — but I think it misses the point. And the point is making life more difficult for neo-Nazi organisations, and those businesses — such as The Birmy and the Melbourne Knights Football Club — that support them. This is part of a more general campaign against organised expressions of racism and fascism in Australia and Aotearoa / New Zealand, one which, as conducted via FightDemBack!, has targeted not just Blood and Honour and the Hammerskins but Australia First, the Patriotic Youth League, the Sydney Forum, the New Right Australia and New Zealand, the New Zealand National Front, the KKK, the White Pride Coalition of Australia, Stormfront Down Under, Redwatch, and numerous other such groups, projects (for example, the ‘Great Australian Bikini March’) and prominent individuals.
Like its fascist critics, you make both too much and too little of this work. In other words, the few dozen individuals directly involved in its work do not claim, and never have, the ability to quash racist or xenophobic sentiment in Australia and Aotearoa. That would be absurd. Rather, such aims as FDB! pursues are much more modest, and essentially revolve around monitoring the activities of some of the most radical exponents of white racial supremacy and associated ideological tendencies. Obviously, this includes taking note of events such as the annual ISD gig, and trying to obtain and to publicise information concerning it. What others do with that information — in terms of The Birmy, the local punk milieu in particular — is up to them. (And in reference to The Birmy, I don’t recall how many times I’ve repeated this, but the issue is not just that Gary actively collaborated in staging a neo-Nazi event at his pub in September of last year, or that this was accompanied by a nasty racist incident, but that under his management numerous such events have taken place.)
And enough is enough.
The issue of racism and race hatred is not over, and it’s not gone. This much should be obvious to anyone who can read. The issue of neo-Nazi organising in Melbourne is not over, and it’s not gone, as the Melbourne Knights will soon discover.
And I have more support than you’ll probably ever know…