- Update (May 19, 2011) : So anyway. Propagandhi’s first gig (Wednesday, May 17) was apparently undisturbed. During their second (Thursday, May 18), at about the time the band took to the stage (10-10.30pm) a small group of 10–20 young nazis attempted to gatecrash the (sold out) show, but were told to go away by security. More news (if any) as it comes to hand.
The band itself rocked; ‘Stolen Youth’ weren’t bad either (didn’t see the first act)…
A handful of nazis on the ‘Down Under’ segment of convicted terrorist Don Black’s Stormfront website have been wailing and gnashing their teef over the upcoming tour (May 18–29) by Canuckistanian band Propagandhi.
Apparently, the delicate sensibilities of the forum members have been
upset rocked by the fact that, inter alia, the band sings about how stoopid racism and fascism is, and–what’s worse–their albums are were released on a label owned by–you guessed it–a Jew.
And so and so forth.
[See : ‘Pro gay and anti nationalist band set to tour Australia’ : stormfront.org/forum/t792644]
Like much of the rest of the discussion on Black’s site, the blather is unintentionally amusing.
“Told to go away”? I was there and I saw that as soon as the group approached the doors (calmly and respectfully, they weren’t trying to gatecrash from what I saw) security formed up on the door and blocked it with at least 6 big bodyguards.
I dunno, I didn’t see it or them. I was told 10 or 15 guys were there and that they were refused entry. If your account is accurate, then it would seem that security identified them as looking to cause trouble:–trying to gain entry without a ticket is silly in any case, especially when in a large group. So… probably a good thing. It was a big crowd.
Local nazi Nattefrost writes (Re: Pro gay and anti nationalist band set to tour Australia):
Awww. A dozen nazis were prevented from beating up 850 Gay Leftist Homosexual Communist Anarchist Queers.
There were about 20 pro-White activists outside the gig, in plain view of all those that preach the bad joke that “fash” will be “bashed.” Even whilst outnumbering the racialists 10:1, the great unwashed still couldn’t work up the guts to act on their so-called “no platform” policy. Weak as piss.
There were? Huh. I didn’t see any. Nobody I spoke to knew about it. What time did they rock up?
Otherwise: generally speaking, people go to see bands to have fun.
Usually, this does not involve bashing anyone, let alone fascists.
In fact, in the reality-based community, nobody (barring those with psychological problems) goes to see a band in order to assault somebody: the 850 or so people who went to see Propagandhi (and Stolen Youth and Counterattack) went to see Propagandhi (and Stolen Youth and Counterattack).
Anyway, I dunno what proportion of people who went to see Propagandhi on Thursday night preach the bad joke that “fash” will be “bashed”, but presuming there were some, there was not any confrontation (as far as I know). The group of 20 (or however many) nazis who apparently did come to the gig didn’t seem to be about when the gig finished.
Otoh, if youse blokes wanna fight, you could always pop down to Revolver eh. They let non-Whites into the club and everything!
no one inside knew about it, and when i found out, i came out looking for the soft cocked fucks myself but lo and behold they had vanished
besides what kind of retards go to any melbourne live music venue and expect no bouncers??? and what kind of gutless pussies get a gang of 15- 20 dickheads together and get scared off by 6 bouncers?
Also that video is hilarious
Bouncer! Fuckin’ bouncer!
I don’t think you can call them gutless pussies when they rocked up, 20 of them, knowing that they would be confronting so many people. Why would they cause trouble for the bouncers?
PS Adam, it’s all good and well tough-talking after all is said and done but the real courage lies with the “Nazis”, whether you disagree with them or not.
If the nazis had really really wanted to confront the fans, they woulda stuck around after the show, surely? I mean, as far as I can tell, nobody even knew they’d rocked up. (Which makes sense, as at the time they apparently did rock up, the crowd was actually inside the venue, rockin’ out.) “Why would they cause trouble for the bouncers?” Why did they come in the first place? And then leave before the crowd actually left the venue?
I think they were foolish to come, but wise to leave when they did.
Random: “it’s all good and well tough-talking after all is said and done” Could someone tell this to the nazis?
Derek – What shit are the “nazis” talking? They said they were going to attend, and they did – They were refused entry, and so being respectful and not wanting to cause trouble for the bouncers (after all, it’s not the bouncers they had a problem with), they left – Can you honestly say that YOU and 10-20 of your friends would rock up at a gig full of Nazis, knowing there were 300 or more, security, police etc.? No? Regardless of whether or not you agree with their politics you must give credit where credit is due – They each had balls of steel to do that.. I personally saw probably 40-50 Propaghandi fans loitering outside the front doing absolutely nothing as the “Nazis” sat in a pub opposite.. Real brave.
@Random: You seem to be quite intent on impressing upon the reader that the nazis were, and are, very brave men (“balls of steel”) and that Propagandhi fans, on the other hand, are… what, cowards? I suggest you may have to accept that there’s a difference of opinion on this question; so too, regarding the nazis’ political acumen, personal hygiene, fashion sense and mental capacities.
What do you think was the purpose of your comrade’s brief visit?
If the nazis had decided to gather at the Richmond Club, why did they not think to tell anyone?
What do you think the 40-50 Propagandhi fans who allegedly ‘loitered’ outside the Corner should have done had they been aware there were nazis in the pub opposite?
Why do you fail to understand the very elementary point that the people who went to see Propagandhi (and Stolen Youth and Counterattack) went to see Propagandhi (and Stolen Youth and Counterattack)?
Is it not possible that the nazis decided not to try and get past the (at least) “6 big bouncers” not because the nazis are exceptionally polite gentlemen, but rather because they understood that doing so may well have been injurious to their continued health and well-being (as well as placed them at risk of arrest and criminal prosecution)? And for what?
Supposing that the bouncers were not present, and the nazis had free access to the crowd, what do you suppose may have occurred?
I don’t know – they’re either brave or crazy (and I’m sure you’d be quick to say crazy haha) to follow through on such a promise. I’m not saying Propagandhi fans are all cowards – by no means do I think that you can’t be brave and a Propagandhi fan, it’s just that well, people such as that guy up there are all “I was ready to smash heads!” from the safety of their keyboards, but when it was all going on there wasn’t a boo. (Of course he was “inside, unaware” etc..)
I expected nothing less – the eventual “mental capacity” dig etc.. Disregarded.
My comrades? Lumping me with the attendees because I’m defending their political beliefs?
They DID. Well, someone did at least, lol. Everyone knows it was spread around on Stormfront that something had to be done in regards to this anti-white pro-gay band playing in Australia, and these guys have obviously rocked up as per their saying they would in their forum or whatever.
I’m not suggesting the fans should have done anything – just observing that despite that idiot above is all “nobody had any idea, but if I did I would have smashed them all” – if 10-20 guys with shaved heads walk past you on the night of such a controversial event how are you not going to pick them for ‘nazis’?
I don’t fail to understand this at all. Perhaps I didn’t elaborate my point fully – while many – maybe even the majority – of Propagandhi (and Stolen Youth, and Counterattack) fans were there to attend and enjoy the gig, almost certainly some fools like oft-mentioned “Fellow Above” were there to stir up some trouble or something.
Again I obviously haven’t explained myself well enough in regards to the bouncers. Yes, attacking the bouncers probably wouldn’t have been beneficial to their continued good health, haha. But also – what reason would they have had for attacking the bouncers? Are the bouncers playing anti-white pro-gay music? Not as far as I could tell. They’re just guys doing their jobs.
Any number of things may have occurred if the nazis were allowed entry. Who am I to say (despite your insinuations that I was there)? Shouldn’t – in your mind – the ability to write more than one sentence without raving into racist, xenophobic madness instantly disqualify me from being someone with such beliefs? The fact of the matter is they could have been there for any number of reasons. To enjoy a beer or two at the pub, or maybe do something stupid like try and bottle the band (and get killed in the process)? I guess we’ll never know.
(PS, happy non-rapture invading armies of hell day.)
(P)P.S – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkXfnyXp06Y
What do you think of this?
A few things.
First, (A)dam is able to speak for himself. But I think he has a point.
The nazis did rock up. I was informed by one person at the show, after it finished, that they did so at some point around 10 or 10.30pm; that is, at about the time Propagandhi began playing. In other words (A)dam is, as far as I can tell, correct to state that “no one inside knew about it”.
The nazis tried to enter the venue but, unsurprisingly, were rebuffed (“told to go away”) by the bouncers. When the show was over (sometime around 11.30pm I think), the crowd slowly exited the building, and the nazis were gone (“lo and behold they had vanished”).
I could be wrogn about these details, but nobody else who was at the gig has contradicted me as yet, and just yourself, (A)dam, and a nazi (presumably one of the guys who came with the nazi group) have commented on this post, and I’ve not found any other discussion of the incident elsewhere.
Beyond this, it’s really not unreasonable to believe that at least some among the 850 attending would (like (A)dam claims, and irrespective of its accuracy in his case) have been prepared to fight the nazis upon leaving the venue, after the show, had the nazis still been present (and aggressive).
It’s also possible that the nazis were (are) not only brave/crazy/foolish, but consummate street fighters, willing and able to utilise their martial skills in order to defeat 10, or 20, or 50, or 100, or even 200 opponents: I don’t know. But I can state that, while the crowd was fairly diverse, it seemed to me that there were a fairly large number of seemingly fit, possibly able people, who might possibly not have been such easy targets for nazi violence. I think the nazis understood this, which is partly, inter alia, why they didn’t stick around: they’d accomplished what they’d set out to achieve.
Secondly, yes: the thread on Stormfront in which a handful of nazis claimed that they might attend one or more of Propagandhi’s gigs attracted considerable attention (over 30,000 views) and generated a good deal of discussion on various punk forums. So, presumably, at least some proportion of the crowd would have been aware of the possibility that nazis might attend. (The band, the touring company, and the venue would too.) Judging by the comments I’ve read inre the threat of disruption, most fans have reacted with a mixture of contempt and/or incredulity, while those responsible for the tour have presumably made whatever additional security arrangements they think necessary in order to prevent any problems from occurring.
…if 10-20 guys with shaved heads walk past you on the night of such a controversial event how are you not going to pick them for ‘nazis’?
That depends, on their skin colour, their behaviour, and their fashion. Believe it or not, I walked past a good deal more than 10 or 20 guys with shaved heads on the night, none of whom appeared to be nazis. In any case, my first reaction would be to examine their clothing and any other markings in order to determine whether they were skinheads or boneheads. If they appeared to be boneheads, I’d assume that they were almost certainly looking for trouble.
…many – maybe even the majority – of Propagandhi (and Stolen Youth, and Counterattack) fans were there to attend and enjoy the gig, almost certainly some fools like oft-mentioned “Fellow Above” were there to stir up some trouble or something.
I would suggest that not some, not many, not most, but the overwhelming majority of people who bought tickets to see the bands play did so precisely for that reason. They went to the gig in order to party, not fight with a group of racist losers. In fact, I’d say it’s highly likely that exactly none attended in order to ‘bash the fash’. Even so, the fact that a nazi makes some kind of statement on Stormfront that they’re going to do ‘something’ is hardly grounds for believing that they will. Further, there was no statement from anyone that I’m aware of that they would be ‘assembling at the Richmond Club at 10.00pm (or whatever) before going over to the Corner at 10.30pm’: yours is the first I’ve read on the matter, and given that nobody else, that I’m aware of, has confirmed this, I still don’t know for certain. In other words, I think you’re being somewhat disingenuous.
…what reason would they have had for attacking the bouncers?
Obviously, because the nazis wanted to get into the venue, and the bouncers were stopping them from doing so. And as (A)dam has also pointed out, the nazis would have known that this is precisely what they could expect.
Any number of things may have occurred if the nazis were allowed entry.
Of course. My reason for asking is to ask what do you think the nazis wanted to do? In other words, apart from avoiding being beaten up by bouncers and/or arrested by police, why did they bother coming? I think if they had merely wanted to enjoy a beer, they could have done so at hundreds of other venues (or even while staying at at home). Again, I think you’re being disingenuous. In the vernacular: don’t come the raw prawn with me.
And so on.
I think that the nazis who attended the Corner on Thursday night share the opinions expressed on Stormfront. That is, they regard Propagandhi and their fans as degenerate filth. Further, they regard such individuals not only as being morally corrupt but as weakened by their corruption–as being not only psychologically-damaged but physically flawed. I think they attended in order to commit violent assault, and would have attacked the audience had the bouncers not stopped them from entering the premises. I think that if they’d attacked the audience, the crowd would have turned on them, and who knows what might have eventuated. Maybe (A)dam and co. would indeed have been shown to have been ‘idiots’; maybe the nazis would have had seven shades of shit beaten out of them.
I guess we’ll never know.
Re video. Dunno. What about it? It doesn’t appear to have much to do with Propagandhi…
RE the video – That’s Barbara blatantly admitting that she’s trying to usher in 3rd world immigrants into 1st world countries, diluting the racial mix etc..
RE the rest of your post – By no means do I presume to speak for the nazis. Maybe they did think Propagandhi fans were mentally unstable etc. etc., not my place to say. Maybe they did rock up looking for a fight, not my place to say. I’ve noticed generally among the Left, you’re unable to give any credit to so-called boneheads as having a shred of intelligence, though – which I think is a bit of a silly generalisation to make. I mean, sure, there are some idiots on Stormfront. I have an account there, and some of the posts I see are ridiculous and embarrassing. There are two types of people when it comes to political groups like this – People that come to the conclusions that they have re Jews, etc. through the information they’ve gathered, and people that are brought up like that and have no actual solid reason WHY they hate, just do. For me, it’s a case of pride, not hate – It might have been ol’ Churchill that said this, and I paraphrase – “The good soldier doesn’t hate what is in front of him, but loves what is behind him”. I can understand why the Nazis were upset at this band, though I don’t pretend to fathom what was actually planned. Maybe they rocked up knowing they’d be rebuffed, counting on it even, and then went and had a good night? Who knows haha.
What I don’t get is – and please explain it – Why do white people love this music, that’s all about “what do you have to be proud of” and stuff? :/
PS (again) – On your Facebook page, specifically the post:
“Apparently, a group of somewhere between 10 and 20 nazis rocked up to the Propagandhi gig last night. Some tried to get into the gig but were refused entry by the bouncers. After which, they left.
Can you do me a small favour and disabuse Jason of the notion that the “Nazis” rocked up when nobody was around? When I observed them (at that stage there were 5) they were at the station with about 15 Propagandhi fans within metres, and then later on they were sitting in the pub while across the street Propagandhi fans poured in.. (I heard one guy go “I got bashed by a Sude on the train”) lol.. obviously I’d post it myself except I don’t particularly feel like getting a billion years worth of abuse (even though I’ll probably regret posting here at all).
By no means do I presume to speak for the nazis.
Given that the nazis haven’t been identified, and given that I don’t know who you are, or what your relationship to the group in question is, no. Otoh, apart from ‘Realist’, you’re the only person defending their behaviour on this thread, the thread on Stormfront has been closed, and so for now I guess you’ll have to do.
Maybe they did think Propagandhi fans were mentally unstable etc. etc., not my place to say.
I’m not suggesting that it is. What I am suggesting is that it’s quite clear, based on specific comments on Stormfront and their more general ideological commitments, that the nazis have contempt for the band and its fans.
I’ve noticed generally among the Left, you’re unable to give any credit to so-called boneheads as having a shred of intelligence, though – which I think is a bit of a silly generalisation to make.
Maybe. I’m not the Left. The Australian Left tends to pay very little attention to boneheads, other than to dismiss them. Otherwise, I credit these nazis in particular with having sufficient nous not to try and pick a fight with bouncers, and to leave the venue before the show finished. More generally, most boneheads are a bit stupid in my experience. There are obviously exceptions, and age tends to encourage a more mature, more nuanced approach to life and politics, but the attraction of being a bonehead has a lot more to do with whatever sense of camaraderie (emotional affect) it provides young white men coupled with its absence in other areas of their life. In this sense, boneheads function in the manner of any other gang or, in a more dilute fashion, yoof subcultures generally. Bonehead subculture also extols the redemptory force of violence, which provides an additional pole of attraction to angry young white men. Moving from the general to the specific, as far as I’m aware there’s been no attempt by the nazis in question to produce any kind of rationale for their action; otoh, the thread on Stormfront provides a mostly idiotic explanation. And as I stated earlier, I think their intent was violence.
That is not what Barbara said (not that I care much either way);
The pride/hate thing I’m naturally familiar with (it’s an old trope);
It’s not really that hard to understand why people like Propagandhi’s music (read the reviews);
I dunno who Jason is but I doubt he cares much what you think;
Your degree of apparent familiarity with nazi activities on the night suggests you were actually one of them.
Alright, I’ll do haha.
The band, I can understand the contempt for. They have anti-White lyrics, they’re touring Australia etc.. I mean wouldn’t you dislike a band going around singing about White Power, smashing Communism (or, well, the anti-thesis of what you stand for)?
You’re not of the Left? You’re going to have to forgive me, not really familiar with you at all, haha. As I said some are attracted to it for reasons like that (violence etc.), sure. Others are attracted to it because it’s a group of people that share a similar belief / ideology / whatever that they do, plus it’s a way to display their beliefs I guess.
Barbara pretty much said that Jews are heralding in a new age of Multiculturalism – which it has been internationally accepted (except of course in Australia) to have failed. We don’t want multiculturalism – Speaking generally.
I should clarify, it’s not the music I personally dislike / can’t understand, but the lyrical content. Why would you like something that’s pretty much insulting you? I’m not completely familiar with their music but it sounds provocative and offensive.. Being against White Power I can understand, but what’s wrong with being proud of your race?
Jason probably doesn’t give a stuff what I think but it’s never nice to see the facts misconstrued in such a manner.
It suggests I’m one of them? Maybe it does, or maybe I was just in the vicinity, or maybe I was a Propaghandi fan, or maybe I know some of them, or maybe I read it somewhere.. Heh, something tells me it’d not be wise to admit to being “one of the boneheads” on a blog such as this, but even so I would have thought most of your compatriots would have instantly disqualified me from being a bonehead based on the fact that I can spell etc.. haha.
RE Stormfront – Don’t take it seriously, nobody does.
One last time ’round the merry-go-round, then I’m giving it a rest.
The band, I can understand the contempt for. They have anti-White lyrics, they’re touring Australia etc.. I mean wouldn’t you dislike a band going around singing about White Power, smashing Communism (or, well, the anti-thesis of what you stand for)?
I referred to the discussion on Stormfront.
The thread title identifies Propagandhi as ‘pro-gay’ and ‘anti-nationalist’.
Members refer to the band as “gay filth”, “punk faggots”, “[i]nsect thin and as queer as they come”, “typical run-of-the-mill self-hating anarchist scum”, “anarchist fags”, “fags”, “lowlife, antiwhite scumbags”, “homos”, “Queer Jews”, “commie queer filth”, and so on and so forth on. In general, the opinions expressed are both vicious and quite demented (a Melbourne Hammerskin writes “Hail AIDS, nature[‘]s cure for degenerate scum”; another member opines that “they look like they are polluted with [AIDS]”) and focus on these alleged properties: disease, homosexuality, Jewishness and leftism. Someone conversant with twentieth-century history would recognise these themes as redolent of Nazi and other fascist rhetoric regarding the allegedly degenerative effect of Jews upon Western society and more general notions of cultural, political and social decadence. For this and many other reasons it’s therefore appropriate to place nazi whining about the tour in this context rather than resort to the euphemisms you prefer.
As for the band’s lyrics, they express opposition to racism and other forms of bigotry and social inequality, and frequently mock those who uphold such values (“Aryan-Nations and Hammerskins: you can wear my nuts on your nazi chins!”): an unacceptable crime in the eyes of local nazis. If I were a member of the Aryan Nations or a Hammerskin (rather than a member of the Collingwood Football Club and a reader of the London Review of Books), a nazi, someone who believes in white racial or male superiority, a neo-conservative as opposed to a libertarian socialist, and so on, I might feel mildly insulted by their lyrics, but I’m not and I don’t. In any case, rather than shake their fists at bouncers, I think the nazis could have saved themselves a good deal of time and effort and everyone else a lot of bother simply by treating themselves to a small teaspoon of concrete.
You’re not of the Left?
You’re missing my point (presumably deliberately): that being that rather than address your remarks to “the Left”, it makes a good deal more sense to direct them to me; that is, the person with whom you’re attempting to engage in dialogue. I merely pointed out that I speak for myself. When you write “I’ve noticed generally among the Left, you’re unable to…”, you’re effectively collapsing the distinction between the two, and attributing to some amorphous entity remarks and attitudes which are not mine. When I write that the Australian Left ignores boneheads, I mean it: there is very little attention given to boneheads in any contemporary self-identified Left publication, forum or discussion, of any sort, in any medium. They simply do not matter. My blog is an exception.
Barbara Spectre said:
Pretty mundane, if arguable: certainly worthy of elaboration; a task presumably undertaken by Barbara in her role as Founding Director at Paideia (aka the “European Institute of Jewish Studies in Sweden, an academic institute established in 2001 through a grant of the Swedish Government that serves as a resource and stimulus for the renewal of European Jewish culture”).
That’s all Volk!
Oh. This too…
Whoa, leave a thread for a day or two and it turns into a fucking novel … i’m gonna just say 3 things. i gave up reading shortly after my last post so forgive me if this has already been covered … but as to them being “respectful” in not wanting to start shit with the bouncers, that is a retarded statement for the simple reason that if they had gone into a venue not even with violent intent but with intent to annoy or protest at the event inside it would instantly gain the annoyance and attention of the bouncers and would at minimum lead to them being asked to leave … it goes back to my original point that they were either A) stupid B) gutless or C) both. also as far as me talking tough, i’m not suggesting that if i’d run into 15 blokes i would have tried it on, but i did go looking … it’s not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact … in hindsight it was a terribly stupid idea … terribly stupid … but to say that i went looking and the wankers had bailed is entirely accurate.
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