Tommy gun — you ain’t happy ‘less you got one
Tommy gun — ain’t gonna shoot the place up just for fun
Maybe he wants to die for the money
Maybe he wants to kill for his country
Whatever he wants, he’s gonna get it
Tommy gun — you better strip it down for a customs run
Tommy gun — waiting at the airport ‘til Kingdom Come
An’ we can watch you make it on the nine o’clock news
Standing there in Palestine lighting the fuse
Whatever you want, you’re gonna get it
Tommy gun
Tommy gun
Tommy gun — a-you’ll be dead when your war is won
Tommy gun — but did you have to gun down everyone?
I can see it’s kill or be killed
A nation of destiny has got to be fulfilled
Whatever you want, you’re gonna get it
Tommy gun — a-you can be hero in an age of none
Tommy gun — I’m cutting out your picture from page one
I’m gonna a get a jacket just like yours
An’ give my false support to your cause
Whatever you want, you’re gonna get it
All right!
Okay, so let’s agree about the price
An’ make it one jet airliner for ten prisoners
Boats and tanks and planes, it’s your game
Kings and queens and generals, learn your name
I see all the innocents, the human sacrifice
And if death comes so cheap, then the same goes for life
And what exactly is the problem with Thompson?
Steve,
problems are in songs he sings;
Jasenovac I Gradiska Stara or Geni kameni for example
and in his fans;
http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012824thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_koncert_treba.jpg
http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618013359thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_ustasa.jpg
http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012548thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_koncert_fasisticki_pozfrav.jpg
http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012242thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_djeca.jpg
Seriously, at the end of the day, I couldn’t care less about him or people attending his gigs here. Most of them don’t speak Croatian anyway (but are trying hard to get in touch with their roots (their grand/parents told them so much about)). He is good at profiting from war, nationalism and hate.
You obviously do not know the facts of what he is about or what he sings about. Look up the lyrics to that song. Nothing in there even supports what happened, only references to what happened, as in, reminiscing… as in… RE-TELLING what happened.
As far as Ustasha goes, look up some info on that too. You’ll be glad to read up on some factual information and not BS put out by Belgrade information centers etc.
You cannot trust what you hear from news reports and any of that stuff. There have been journalists who publicly apologized for what was said during the wartime because they were paid and/or threatened by Serbs to put out information that Croatians were doing what in fact the SERBS were doing. Thus pushing the blame on to Croats. And for whatever reason it stuck… people are just stubborn, and listen to powers who oppress others.
So, read up before you get any silly ideas about him, the war, or anything else.
Well Iva, Cetnicks are just as fucked as Ustashe (notice how I’m not saying Serbs or Croats). Cetnicks have their own “Thompson” that sings the same type of songs from a different point of view, but with the same conclusions – “They are bad, we are good”.
Both sides don’t want to take responsibility for their actions, play down accusations, reduce the numbers of civilians others are claiming they’ve killed. And both use arguments that satisfy only themselves. It’s just one big cycle of endless stupidity. When will it end? Not soon, because there are guys like Thompson that are profiting from the blood that was spilt.
Just look at some of the lyrics from the song I’ve mentioned in my previous post:
“U Capljini, klaonica bila, puno Srba Neretva nosila” (Translation: “In Capljina, was a slaugtherhouse, lots of Serbs in Drina river”). And you complain how it is all due to media taking sides? How can you say that when dickheads like this are proud of that?
Let’s look at some of the other songs he sang, very popular with nationalists: “Oj ustase braco mila, duboka je voda Drina, Drinu cemo pregaziti, a Srbiju zapaliti” (Translation: “Hey Ustashe dear brothers, Drina river is deep, we’ll cross over Drina and burn Serbia”).
That’s not even “re-telling” what happened as you said, but re-fueling the hatred every time those words are sung.
Andy, just another point:
Most Croats in Croatia are currently VERY calm compared to those abroad (especially those that were born overseas that can hardly speak Croatian). Another interesting thing is B&H Serbia is much stronger and bigger than B&H in Croatia, which is extremely small and weak in all respects.
Here’s me thinking that “denial” was just a river in Egypt.
I know nothing about Thompson, aside from the fact that he (Marko Perković) dresses like an extra from The Matrix, other than what I have read from what I take as reliable sources. I do know that power does not emanate from Belgrade “information centres” and that the Ustasha did not miraculously side-step the genocide of Jews, Gypsies and Serbs. I didn’t realise that was even being contested.
I suppose that is just a dramatic “retelling” of ultra-nationalist Ustasha nonsense.
You are a plain idiot Lumpen.
I take it you’re going to go along and salute your fuehrer on his Australian tour, then, Steve?
Point out where I’m wrong Steve. I’ll gladly respond.
Yeah I will RPC. And after the gig we will go communist hunting.
Looks like I’m safe then.
Lumpen your little rant had very little to do with Thompson himself.
He came out to Australia in 2005, no one said a word. But now Croatian-bashing is the flavour of the month with you lot, you start kicking up a fuss.
Fascists and nazis from Serbia had a rally in one of their cities not long ago. B&H were there as well, of course.
Two sides have so much in common…
They can maybe go communist hunting together, there are sooo many communists around these days.
How does it feel to be stuck back in time, in WWII, without even being alive when it happened? Time machine your grandparents built works just fine, I see…
Oh I see 1974 making comments about communists is silly is it, but making such comments about the far right is fine. The hypocrisy of the left strikes again.
Looky here: Australian Thompson fans want him to play his most offensive song; brag about how fun it is to goose-step to it.
I couldn’t care less about communists/communism if you must know. When a communist singer comes here to sing about people his grand/parents killed in whatever country, I’d be first in line to oppose him. Fuck communism and fuck nazism, they both enslave people in their own way.
I’m not trying to take sides in political debates here mate, that never works. Just try and look at this situation from neutral point of view.
See for example how each nation sees their generals as war heroes and saints – while the other side sees them as war criminals. If you look at it from outside, you can see both sides of the argument – and the truth can never be gathered from one side only, but if you take sides, you’ll never see the big picture.
I just want the things to settle down mate. We can never move on and continue if we’re living in the past…
The paranoid authoritarian mind set is a joy to behold and usually reveals itself after a bit of poking around.
I’ve read 1974’s comments a couple of times, Steve, and I don’t know what you’re on about. Not sure what s/he’s on about either (the time machine stuff).
As for the difference between 2005 and now, well, events tend to happen over the passage of time that in turn influence other events – it’s called REALITY. You might be familiar with it.
In 2005, the MCSC hadn’t hosted a Nazi rally, the Croatian Club hadn’t named a hall after a genocidal maniac as well as UCC inviting the goose-stepping version of John Farnham out to Australia.
You can cry about “Croatian-bashing” all you like, but it isn’t a substitute for evidence or an argument. Being Croatian is not a free-pass to blame problems on Jews, Serbs or immigrants or whatever. Unlike your mates on the Right, you’ll notice that most people commenting on this blog are at pains to explain they aren’t tarnishing all of a race with the same brush by critiquing and scrutinising elements organising through an ethnic social club. You tell me, Steve: what’s the difference between criticising the actions of someone who is Croatian and being “anti-Croatian”?
As for Perković touring, I personally think he’s small potatoes. In the context of other events, however, it’s a matter of ongoing concern about what the fuck is going through the heads of certain individuals in the Croatian scene.
Why not support someone like Ivana Radovniković instead? She’s ace. Thompson is crap.
1974 is obviously a Homosexual Communist of Jewish and Serbian descent whose one purpose in life, as mandated in the Protocols, is to attack God-fearing, hard-working, patriotic Croatians for the crime of loving their Country, their Family and their God. The hypocrisy of the left strikes again.
Andy why don’t you actually get a life and get over it. You are a Croat hater, it’s as simple as that.
lolacaust
“In 2005, the Croatian Club hadn’t named a hall after a genocidal maniac”
sorry Lumpen, but that hall has been named after Ante Pavelic as long as it has been around.
Yes Steve, I am obviously a Homosexual Communist of Jewish and Serbian descent whose one purpose in life, as mandated in the Protocols, is to attack God-fearing, hard-working, patriotic Croatians for the crime of loving their Country, their Family and their God. The hypocrisy of the left strikes again and again.
All three things together constitute the current context for focus on the activities, is what I meant. Not that all three things had happened recently or simultaneously. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
And to be fair, other things have happened completely outside of Croatian social clubs that contribute to the same context; increased co-ordination amongst anti-racists, post-Cronulla vigilance, boneheads falling over each other to share info with antifa, yadda yadda.
Unless I missed the meeting where we decided the best way to tackle racism is to hang shit on Croats, that’s the best explanation, methinks.
When was the hall opened, by the way?
And fucking hell Steve, adding “it’s as simple as that” after an assertion is not the same as making an argument. You still haven’t answered my question: What’s the difference between criticising the actions of someone who is Croatian and being “anti-Croatian”?
I think the difference doesn’t apply because Steve thinks you are criticising worthy Croatian patriots, which means you oppose worthy Croatian patriotism and national pride, which means you are anti-Croatian.
I think that Steve is a holocaust denier. That is being charitable, since the alternative is that he acknowledges Pavelic’s systematic mass murder of Serbs and Jews (amongst others) and either thinks it is good or at least that it doesn’t tarnish the worthy quality of his fascist, anti-Semitic stream of Croatian patriotism.
So, there is a syllogism for you: Pavelic et al were good Croats who only anti-Croatian racists would criticise; you criticised Pavelic and his fans; you are an anti-Croatian racist. Like those anti-German racists who talk about Hitler, the anti-Russian racists who go on about Stalin, hey why not? – those anti-Australian racists who went on about Pauline Hanson…you get the idea. I bet you’re all those things, Lumpen, you racist hypocrite.
The Croatian Catholic Community Centre in Clifton Hill has a statue of Pavelic’ buddy Stepinac out front, too. How tasteful.
I’d rather hear it from him, though.
Lumpen on this site I am not seeing simple criticisms again certain individuals who just happen to be of Croatian heritage, what I’m seeing is outright hate against the Croatian community in general.
No doubt most of you come from an Anglo-Celtic background, maybe you should look at your own backyard.
To Lumpnboy.
It’s pretty clear your ridiculous assertion that I’m a holocaust denier is simply based on the fact that I am Croatian. You are nothing more than a racist.
And being anti-Croatian is anti-Croatian as you are opposing our right to celebrate and embrace our heritage and culture. Do we not live in a multi-cultural society. If you don’t like it maybe you should fuck off to some other country.
What’s wrong with a statue of Stepinac? Boy haven’t you been forcefed and brainwashed by Greater Serbia and Communist propaganda. There are many Jews who consider Stepinac a hero for rescuing Jews during WW2. But clearly you know better than them.
outright hate against the Croatian community in general
Where? Substantiate your claim, or fuck off.
Well, the various ethnic backgrounds of my family either spent time directly fighting each other or hating one another (Irish/English/Jewish/Protestant/Catholic/German and no doubt numerous other ethnic/religious/social divisions).
You do realise that using the word Anglo-Celtic to describe people living in the British Isles would be as offensive to nationalists from those areas as calling you Yugoslavian, don’t you?
Now, my time is limited and I have a lot of denouncing to do…
It’s not my problem if you cannot read RPC you left wing faggot.
No, it’s your problem that you can’t read you homophobic creep.
Oh, puh-lease. Is that the best you’ve got?
When you make accusations, such as accusing people of “outright hate against the Croatian community in general”, it is up to you to substantiate your claim.
Or fuck off.
“No doubt most of you come from an Anglo-Celtic background, maybe you should look at your own backyard.”
The MCSC hosted an event organised by the local franchises of two neo-Nazi networks, Blood & Honour Australia and the Southern Cross Hammerskins. The majority of its membership is of Anglo-Celtic/Anglo-Saxon descent.
Read the comments comrade. On the issue of the neo-Nazi gig hosted by the Social Club, instead of Andy simply talking about the stupidity of the Social Club he chose to bring [up] matters of Thompson, the Ustasa and general comments about the Croatian community. Wtf does that have to do with the Social Club’s decision? Nothing. It’s just a ploy to demonise the Croatian community. So many replies on here have been simply about casting the Croatian community in a negative light. Not surprising as the left in Australia has a long history of doing so. Flies in the very face of your supposed anti-racism. This is a multi-cultural country, if you get off on attacking ethnic minorities then clearly you should fuck off out of Australia.
Important question for you all, why don’t you left wing scumbags concentrate on condemning the neo-Nazis themselves? Aren’t they the problem? Logic says yes, but instead what we have seen is you idiots choose to go on the attack against the Croatian community instead. Says it all.
The Croatian community says fuck you to the left.
That you see no difference between opposition to the Ustasha and their fans on the one hand, and hatred of the ‘Croatian community’ on the other, is revolting. The politics of those neo-nazi idiots are no worse than the politics of the Ustasha idiots. If you really think that anyone who thinks the Ustasha were anti-Semitic, genocidal creeps is an anti-Croatian racist, then your identification with this idea of ethnic community has led you down an ugly road indeed. That you only perceive anti-Croatian sentiment at work, and nothing else except perhaps brainwashing by communists and Serbs, is a ridiculous dogmatism and failure to engage.
And Stepinac declared that it was the duty of all Croatians to support the Ustasha while the Ustasha were doing their best to commit genocide. And those photos of him giving that, er, ‘Roman salute’ while standing amongst the uniformed Ustasha parliamentarians are suitable for framing too.
Benjamin Rosenzweig
G’day Steve.
“On the issue of the neo-Nazi gig hosted by the Social Club, instead of Andy simply talking about the stupidity of the Social Club he chose to bring [up] matters of Thompson, the Ustasa and general comments about the Croatian community. Wtf does that have to do with the Social Club’s decision?”
Precisely. In other words: why on Earth did the MCSC agree to host a neo-Nazi event? Prior to this point, the gig was usually held at The Birmingham Hotel in Fitzroy (whose owner and manager is alleged to have some links to white supremacist groups). Following adverse publicity, and a(n ongoing) community campaign, the boneheads decided to re-locate the gig to the MCSC.
Why?
Further, and as I’ve reiterated, when initially contacted, the Club/s denied all knowledge. In fact, the MCSC still denies knowledge and responsibility.
Your assertion that I’m motivated by animus towards the Croatian community is simply not tenable. Thus if you examine this blog, only a very small proportion of posts make any reference to Croatia. The first, as it happens, is when in January 2006 I re-published a history of the DSP titled ‘Raiders of the Left Ark’:
Another reference, in June 2006, is to a documentary film named ‘Bastards of Utopia’, which is about anarchist-punks in Zagreb. Further references are to Helen Coonan‘s attendance at a ceremony marking the establishment of the Ustasha regime, and Dr. Tomislav Sunic‘s attendance at the Sydney Forum — both events which occurred in 2007. Given that there are close to 900 posts on my blog, it can hardly be maintained that this is some kind of crusade! Further, I support the efforts of Croatian anarchists. In other words, my perspective is determined by over-arching, political considerations, rather than ethnic loyalties.
“…why don’t you left wing scumbags concentrate on condemning the neo-Nazis themselves?”
Actually, 343 of the posts on this blog have been classified as belonging to the category of ‘Anti-fascism’, so if you think that I’m not paying enough attention to neo-Nazi antics, in Australia or on other islands, I’d suggest that you are being just plain silly. Further, you’ll find no shortage of condemnation of neo-Nazism and related, fascist tendencies in these posts, but in any case, I’m not interested in merely ‘condemning’ these schmucks, but impeding their ability to organise. Including, of course, their ability to organise gigs. Part of this involves finding out where they are being held, contacting the owners/managers, then alerting the public. The fact that Gary, part-owner and manager of The Birmy, is a Kiwi, is neither here nor there as far as I’m concerned; his importance lies not in his ethnicity, but his role as host to neo-Nazis. The same goes for the MCSC.
(I also prefer the term ‘anarchist scumbag’.)
“The Croatian community says fuck you to the left.”
You no more speak for the Croatian community than you do the Melbourne Knights.
‘It’s not my problem if you cannot read RPC you left wing faggot.’
c’mon, steve, no-one is making fun of marko perkovic for having a freddie mercury moustache.
Hi all
I think this debate is pretty interesting (as well as being asinine and idiotic). Whilst as an ultra-leftist (yes a communist) i am happy to side with an anti reactionary nationalist position i don’t think the label of neo-nazi adequately describes bands like Thompson nor the rising wave of reactionary nationalism in Eastern Europe. Whilst neo-nazi elements may play a role in these movements they are greater, more popular and more seriously worrying than imitators of the Third Reich… the fact that these movements finds a resonance here in Australia within the complicated and multifaceted ethnic hierarchies of neo-liberalism is troubling and speaks to a need to be thought through seriously.
rebel love
dave
Dave,
Not exactly sure what the debate is. Or maybe there’s several. Certainly, B&H and the Hammerskins are neo-Nazi; the Ustasha, fascist. Dunno what anti-reactionary nationalism is, especially to an ultra-leftist/communist. As far as I’m aware, support for the Ustasha has been a factor within local Croatian politics since the 1950s, and the arrival of the first major wave of Croatian emigrants. In other news…
Jewish groups protest show of Nazi band at church hall
BY RICH SCHAPIRO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, October 31st 2007
Outraged Jewish groups are demanding [Cardinal Egan?] speak out against Nazi-glorifying rockers set to take the stage Friday night in a Catholic Church-owned concert hall…
Look at the past few weeks Andy, you have gone on a crusade against the Croatian community. Your attack has not been confined to attacking the MCSC, rather you have gone beyond that choosing to look at the Croatian community itself. MCSC is one group within the Croatian community, it does not represent the Croatian community. This is something you clearly have trouble understanding.
“Part of this involves finding out where they are being held, contacting the owners/managers, then alerting the public. The fact that Gary, part-owner and manager of The Birmy, is a Kiwi, is neither here nor there as far as I’m concerned; his importance lies not in his ethnicity, but his role as host to neo-Nazis. The same goes for the MCSC.”
Then why focus on the Croatian community if ethnicity is not important?
“You no more speak for the Croatian community than you do the Melbourne Knights.”
I have more authority on the issues than you, an outsider to our community.
Then why focus on the Croatian community if ethnicity is not important?
Because the Croatian community are in a position of influence over the venues concerned. The punk music scene has influence over the Birmy, which is why the boycott campaign is directed to the punk music scene.
And we know the MCSC does not represent the Croatian community. We know that the majority of the Croatian community is opposed to neo-nazis. You’re the one who has tried to imply that we think all Croats are evil or some such nonsense.
y are u complaining about mcsc holding the neo nazi concert when AUSTRALIAN neo nazis went to the concert
omg look at the pic of thompson, his pointing, omg he must be a ustasa, he must be stopped, 😮
We don’t like them either, tomi.
that should have read anti “reactionary nationalist” not “anti-reactionary” nationalist. Like i am with you but i think different conceptual tools are needed
rebel love
dave
found this very interesting article by G M Tamas on the rise of reactionary nationalism in Hungary.
redstars/blackskies
dave
cheers. also: State building in Western Balkans, Andrej Grubacic, Z, March 9, 2007