UPDATE OCTOBER 2019 : Over 11 1/2 years later, Jock remains in prison, despite having won parole in September 2019.
Update #6 ( July 8 ) : Charles Miranda, Dad’s bid to free murder charge son Jock Palfreeman, The Daily Telegraph, July 8, 2008
Update #5 ( March 24 ) : Charles Miranda, New evidence in Australian’s murder case, The Daily Telegraph, March 24, 2008
Update #4 ( January 29 ) : Just stumbled upon an article from The Frontier Times (Bulgaria’s English language newspaper) by Stefan Stefanov, ‘Aussie Go Hero or Thug?’, January 10–February 10, 2008 edition. Stefanov writes: “Experts investigating the murder and attempted murder said that the knife penetrated the victim’s back straight through to the heart – a professional stab”; the only source (outside of commentary: see Vesselin Petrunov, January 8) that I’m aware of for this claim. Stefanov also writes “Meanwhile, it was leaked to the press that Mr Palfreeman had previously been charged for attempted murder back home in Australia”, which is false. Palfreeman has never been charged with attempted murder; what happened was that a man by the name of James Atack and another man simply called ‘Matt’ went to a local paper (January 3) with allegations that Palfreeman had stabbed them at a party. Jock was never charged for the alleged crime, apparently for lack of evidence.
Update #3 ( January 20 ) : Jock Palfreeman “enjoying cult-like status on the Internet”, bearing “striking resemblance to actor Matt Damon” and “now the subject of at least four websites and … receiving movie-star attention” says Marnie O’Neill of The Daily Telegraph.
Update #2 ( January 8 ) : Accused Aussie refused bail in Bulgaria, says AAP. news.com.au, on the other hand, appears to have put Charles Miranda on the case, who claims that Palfreeman may plead insanity…
Update #1 ( January 4 ) : Two more articles in the press, one in The Daily Terror by Gemma Jones, the other in the Sydney Morning Herald by Malcolm Brown. Jones reports a Facebook page has been set up by friends of Jock’s called ‘Jock Palfreeman is Not Guilty’ [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=16826320034], attracting 60 (now almost 90) friends; some gossip regarding Jock’s love life; and reiterates the claims made yesterday in an earlier article by herself and another hack; viz, that James Atack and someone called Matt had “almost died” in a similar attack by Jock at a party in 2004, and that the pair “later named Palfreeman as the person who stabbed them. But police did not lay charges because of a lack of evidence” (Bulgaria accused’s pals rally, January 4). Brown (Father arrives to visit jailed son, January 4) writes that Jock’s father has arrived in Sofia, and that DFAT is keeping a close eye on the case. Interestingly, Brown also writes:
In Sydney, James Atack, of Lane Cove North, who was quoted in The Daily Telegraph yesterday saying that Palfreeman had stabbed him and another youth at a party in Chatswood in 2004, confirmed to the Herald yesterday he had been quoted correctly and it was true. In his quoted statement, he said he had complained to the police but the police had not laid charges through lack of evidence. Questioned by the Herald, Mr Atack said: “I am not quite comfortable talking about this. Me and my friend agreed we would talk to each other before talking to the press again.”
One (presumably) pseudonymous commenter, on the other hand — Karlos — claims that “Jock was involved in that party, but in regards to the comment about him carrying a knife with him, he actually took the knife off one of the people mentioned in the paper as a victim as that person was threatening his brother”. And in news just to hand, another commenter called grayham writes:
this case so far is complete bullshit. i’m in sofia. jock was with me for christmas and he’s 1 of my best friends. i’ve known him for 18 months. in bulgaria first and then in england. it was self defence. there was a gang beating a gypsy. jock chased them off. they then beat him and my girlfriend. unfortunately i wasn’t there to help as i had left an hour or so before. i wasn’t allowed into court even though jock had asked me to be there. even the judge asked where i was and then told the court that i had said i hardly knew jock anyway, which is the complete opposite of my statement. i’ve given the police names of other people who were there and as yet they have not been contacted.
you would not believe the things the judge has said to jock. she has already made up her mind. as for the one thing that will help, for sure the cctv – which the police have – we have been told so far that it probably won’t be allowed to be shown as evidence.
jock and me have also had problems with racists in the past. if you look slightly alternative over here it’s enough to get you beaten up. carrying a knife here is quite normal. you’re allowed to carry guns if you want. wouldn’t you carry something if everywhere you went you see swastikas and “punks die” grafittied on the walls?
from what i’ve heard jock is lucky to still be alive and didn’t really have any choice.
for all his friends out there i’ve seen him today and yesterday and he’s ok.
can’t believe this chatswood bullshit. if he’s been found innocent that’s the end of it.
he needs his friends’ help and support – glad to see there are so many of you out there.
Speaking of support, somebody called Phil suggests a letter along these lines would be useful if sent to the relevant authorities:
Dear Sir / Madam,
I write concerning Jock Palfreeman, the British serviceman recently arrested over a fatal stabbing in Sofia.
I am most concerned that Jock will not receive a fair trial because the victim’s father is a prominent Bulgarian and all the witnesses are friends of the deceased.
The information we have received from friends in Bulgaria is that Jock was acting in self-defence after trying to help another man who was being attacked by a gang of Nazi/fascist skinheads.
I understand that legal proceedings must have their own process but would appreciate it if you could do anything to address my concerns or direct them to the relevant authorities in Bulgaria.
Yours faithfully…
The address for the Embassy of Bulgaria in Canberra, Australia is below. Details of the address in London, England are available here.
Update : As an apparent result of defending himself and another man from fascist assault, it appears that Jock Palfreeman is in trouble with the Bulgarian police, judiciary and state. As is traditional, the British Army has abandoned Jock (“a phase two recruit with the British Army’s 1st Battalion Infantry Training Centre” according to a report in The Daily Terror) and he has also been denied bail by magistrate Maria Petrova — on the basis of his allegedly violent disposition. According to one report by the ABC, “In a written statement tendered to the court, Mr Freeman [sic] said he had gone to the aid of a gypsy [that is, Rom] who was being attacked”. A plausible scenario, given that Romani are frequently subject to racist attacks, both in Bulgaria and throughout Europe (as is also traditional).
See also : Malcolm Brown, Friends stunned as trip ends in fatal brawl, Sydney Morning Herald, January 2, 2008.
In Australia, the Bulgarian Government has an Embassy in the ACT, and it may be useful to politely inform the Embassy that Jock’s friends in Australia wish to see him receive a fair trial:
- Australian Capital Territory : Embassy of Bulgaria
Street address: 33 Culgoa Circuit, O’Malley, Canberra ACT 2600
Postal address: Phillip DC, PO Box 6096, Canberra ACT 2606
Chancery:
Monday – Friday; 9.00 am – 12.30 pm; 2.00 pm – 5.30 pm
tel: 02/ 6286 9711; fax: 02/ 6286 9600
e-mail: [email protected]
Consular section:
Monday – Friday; 9.30 am – 12.00 pm
tel: 02/ 6286 9700; fax: 02/ 6286 9600
e-mail: [email protected]
Somebody called Joe Paul Freeman or (more likely, perhaps) Jock Palfreeman has been arrested in Sofia, Bulgaria over a stabbing incident (Aussie charged with murder after Bulgaria brawl, AAP, SMH, January 1, 2008):
An Australian man has been charged with murder and refused bail after a knife attack in Bulgaria which left one man dead and another badly injured.
Jock Palfreeman, 21, from NSW, made a brief appearance before Sofia City Court on Monday and pleaded not guilty to one count of murder and another of attempted murder.
He was arrested last Friday in the Bulgarian capital after allegedly fatally stabbing 20-year-old Andrei Monov, the son of prominent local psychotherapist Hristo Manov, in a street brawl.
Palfreeman is also accused of attempting to murder Antoan Zahariev, 19.
According to a police statement tendered to the court, Palfreeman admitted stabbing the two Bulgarian men but insisted it was in self-defence.
Palfreeman said that while he had been carrying a knife at the time, he only pulled it out to defend himself and two other friends from a group of football hooligans who were attacking another man…
The stabbing appears to have a ‘political’ dimension, as ‘The court heard that Palfreeman was in Bulgaria to visit a friend and had been out drinking with a group of people when they saw a group of men hitting another man and shouting “fascists”‘; Palfreeman also appears to have been a teenage socialist.
Friend – az ne sam mnogo sigurna che toja anti friend e bulgarian… a ako si bulgarin/ka si super smotan/a i predpolagam che njamash i edin prijatel shtoto si skapan/a kompleksar/ka.
You anti friend are a sad loser, and you did not know Andrey… so stop this shit right now.
Vik
Maybe I am a sad loser, but I have one simple question: Why Andrey always had talked about Dr. Mengele and Rudolf Hess, and described them as heroes? Why? And one interesting fact- his aggression most probably was due to the fact that no matter the fact he was 20, he was a virgin.
anti friend ti izobshto chatkash li neshto na bulgarski??? are be i az sam kazvala che hitler e velik, ne zaradi tova che e ubival hora no e velik za tova che e uspjal da zavladee pochti cjala evropa…i…? az ne sam fashistka. a tva dali e bil virgin is bullshit… if he didnt want u it was coz u were not attractive darling
Ako s ryka se broe6e… And no Hitler was NOT a great person and you are not better than Andrey. It is obvious that your brains are washed, just as his was. Moreover, as I sad, it can be proved that he was aggressive, as well as that he drank toooooooooo much. To translate: Na snimkata deto ste q lepnali na str1 na saita mu, s kiuneca, dyrje6e 4a6a i butilka. Za6to otrqzahte alkohola? 6toto ne bebe alkoholik li? Znam, za6toto bqh tam…
Good work @ndy I’m sure the Bulgarian Embassy is keeping a tab on this thread. In fact I guarantee it. I hope he enjoys his little stay with his new prison friends. Classic tail [sic] of spoilt little rich kid.
To the people who were the friends of the victim all I can say is sorry and thankfully idiots like @ndy are few and far between in Australia. We should really put a travel ban on stupid Anarchists. Unless they are going to Southern Africa.
abe choveche mnogo hora v bg pijat i az kogato pija pija po polovin butilka vodka. i kvo?
You really hate andrey, dont u? well he is gone now u must be happy?
Just for the record i did not say hitler was great but that he was great to have had the power and brain to conquer europe – a continent so varied in culture. and i think him killing people was disgusting and he was evil. if u cant see through what im saying u must be blind.
Anyway and what that he was drinking? R u a priest or something? Plus do u even know anything about australians? they drink beer like u drink water so i dont think your stories about andrey drinking r going to make any impression.
emi friend – eto pomisli si koi e toja zagubenjak/chka anti friend, kazva che e bil tam na partito?
Even if it’s true, what does Andy being a virgin or talking about historical people (who had some good scientific points, otherwise the Russians, British and Americans would not have fought to give them immunity and take them into their own arms, like many other Nazis), have to do with being stabbed in the back? You think he deserved stabbing?
Obviously, anti-friend has his own agenda, maybe Andy stole his girl… Still, it is no way to talk about the dead, and shows he is a sick person and has nothing useful to say about the violent murder Jock committed. What a pig 🙁 (a virgin, wow… uh… how does he know?)
David Wolf
Wow, A VIRGIN!!! He deserves to be stabbed to death, that’s SO disgusting!
That just makes it even sadder, that poor young boy. He should have been able to grow, fall in love, marry and have children, not die like a dog in the street at the hands of a maniac.
David Wolf
@ndy, this is maybe my last post here, because it’s going in the wrong way… i start to write here, because i was thinking you are trying to learn the true- well, i was wrong! all of you are living in the world of Jock, where he didn’t KILLED Andrey… it’s weird… i just don’t understand why everybody, who never know Andrey talk about what he is… it’s pointless to talk same things every day! all of Andrey’s friends and his parents know what a wonderful man he is and it’s really hard when you read shit about your child/friend!
i hope when you see the true, you will confess you were wrong and will never again try to abuse Andrey’s memory!
the website i was talking about is http://www.andreymonov.com
’til weekend we will upload everything, include the whole story about that night… i hope you will find somebody to translate it for you, because it will be Bulgarian only!
i will see what you will write than and will you allow men like anti-friend to write shit about Andrey!
i thought this blog will be something different from the newspaper, e-zines, TV and tabloids… and again i was wrong! you are living in dreamland, where one MURDER is not important, one 20-year dead man neither… well i really care about Andrey and that’s why i was trying to stop doing this!
@ndy, you want justice, but you don’t want to accept the true and you act like you are blind… your problem, but i will ask you if you can to stop talking about Andrey and what he is and lies, because his parents and friends can’t take this anymore!
i believe, that as a human you will understand that!
thanks in adv.
to anti-friend:
vij kakvo, az ne sum forumen pluh kato teb! tova, che si kompleksiran wvno men ne mi e rabota-rabota e na tvoite roditeli, priqteli, uchiteli i na teb samiq!
nedei da petnish imeto na Andrey, ako ne zaradi samiq nego, to pone zaradi semeistvoto mu i priqtelite mu!!!
ot posta ti razbiram, che si ot Lozenec, predpolagam ot 21-vo???
nikoga ne si kazval na Andrey kakvo mislish za nego ili ne si se opitval da oborish negovo tvurdenie, ako izobshto si go poznaval!
mail-a mi e [email protected]
pishi, da se razberem da se vidim nqkude v kvartala, kudeto kajesh, az sushto uchih v 21vo, no nqkolko vipuska po-goren klas ot Andi.
dai da se vidm, ochevidno ti se govori!!!
ne pishi po internet, opitai na jivo da mi obqnish kakuv vsushtnost e Andrey?!?
otnosno snimkite v site-ne razbrah z kakvo govorish, no razmera na snimkite e suobrazen s podredbata im v site-ako razbirash neshto ot web, shte se dosetish za kakvo ti govorq!!!
za pieneto-qvno ne si kontaktuval s alkoholici, zatova taka govorish…chovek, priet i zapisal na dve mesta vishe obrazovanie nqma prosto kak da e takuv! Navsqkude se pie, nqma chovek koito ne e pil alkohol, taka che dumite ti sa naistina jalki!
za Hitler i Hess nqma da ti obqsnqvam, nevejstvoto ti sushto ne e moq rabota!
i Andrey nikoga na nikogo ne e vadil noj!!! toi NE OBICHASHE ORUJIQ!!!!!!
Pochivai i mir, priqteliu!
By the way, not to inflame the racial thread again, but yesterday there were Gypsies, in broad daylight, tearing down a metal barrier across a construction site next to my home to sell for metal. The police finally came, but much of it was already gone and may become a danger to children besides being very ugly now.
Gypsies also regularly take the grates from the streets that cover the drainage holes. If a car should hit that hole it could cause a fatal crash. The city replaced them, yet within a week they were gone again. I wonder why Bulgarians hate Gypsies? Maybe you live in a very different world, in Australia. This is life on the street with Gypsies. They have had every chance to integrate, even given clean homes to live in, which they then destroyed.
Most of them are proud to live free, off of the work of others, by stealing, prostituting and cheating. No wonder they are PRE-JUDGED, they have created this reality. I know some good Gypsies, but they had to prove to me that they were different.
David Wolf
Friend, if you come back to read, I invite you to have a beer with me and talk. I didn’t know Andy, but I can sure understand your and his families pain at this senseless loss. It might be good for you to see that not all foreigners are violent pigs with no respect for Bulgaria or Bulgarians.
If you noticed, I am using my real name and give my real e-mail address: [email protected]. I have nothing to hide and stand behind my words. I live near the new Sofia Mall. Let’s have a beer.
David Wolf
Jim QLD:
Thanks Jim. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that a representative of the Embassy were to read this thread — it is, after all, a public document, and seemingly the main English forum for a discussion of Jock’s case. On which point, my blog attracts all kinds of different readers, even — or perhaps especially — neo-Nazis such as yourself. Google “Ian Stuart” and you’ll see what I mean. And as I’ve already indicated, Jock was not, as far as I’m aware, an ‘anarchist’. On the other hand, the US still maintains a law against the entry of anarchists into the country so…
David:
Andy being a virgin or not is irrelevant. I’m not sure what “good scientific points” Hitler (?) had, or even what a good scientific point is. However, I’m familiar with the history of US attempts to utilise for their own purposes — military, political, scientific and technical — (former) Nazis and other fascists following WWII (but that’s another story).
friend:
I repeat:
“As far as I’m aware — and as far as I’ve written — [Andrey] was a 20 year old law student, the son of a local doctor.”
I am not trying to abuse Andrey’s memory. I am trying to report what happened and to provide a forum for yourself and others to express their views. I don’t know what has been written in Bulgarian because I don’t understand the language. For translations I rely on a Bulgarian comrade. One distinguishing feature of this blog is that it has allowed both friends of Andrey’s and friends of Jock’s to put their views forward.
[See also : Sofia Court Rules Australian Stabber Stays Behind Bars // Australian Stabber in Bulgaria Accused Before // Father of Australian Stabber Arrives in Bulgaria // The “[Australian] case”: A real test for the Bulgarian state]
Understandably, their perspective on events is coloured by their relationships with the two men. I’ve no desire to unnecessarily offend you or to cause either Andrey’s or Jock’s family and friends any further distress, and I view Andrey’s death as being tragic. I am also trying to keep in mind the following, and would suggest that others do so too:
David: Maybe no-one has every explained to you why you’re being stupid, so I’ll give it a go.
It’s because you talk about Gypsies as a single-minded mass, contrary to all the evidence. Australian anarchism, for example, owes a great debt to Bulgarian immigrants, but I’m not so foolish as to think that all Bulgarians are anarchist. Condemning someone a priori because of their race is stupid because it willfully ignorantly with no benefit – unless the “benefit” is the pathetic (and fleeting) community gained through identifying as a racist.
Racism has been so thoroughly discredited it isn’t worth serious consideration in any analysis. So when someone, like yourself, claims to have a basis in fact for your racism it’s little wonder that you’re treated as a sad joke.
In other words, you haven’t met every gypsy in Bulgaria, or even properly researched a large enough cross-section to form a reliable statistical analysis (as in “Most of them are proud to live free, off of the work of others, by stealing, prostituting and cheating”*) so STOP TALKING SHIT.
*Since when is prostitution not work? And “cheating”? Like, at chess? Do you mean “stealing” as in rolling a kid for his iPod, or “stealing” as in paying someone a wage that is less than the value of their work?
PS. This isn’t an invitation for more of your shit talk, but a warning to do some homework before mashing your keyboard.
First, because Friend started about explaining Hitler… She explained how he conqured Europe and we should adore him- so guess what- he conquered Europe because of the victims, because of the nazism, because of the mass murderers. As you were one of the closest people around Andrey your brain is washed, just as his was. Do you know why on the site of his memory they are putting so many pictures from his early childhood? Because they could not find even a few pictures on which Andrey is not surrounded by heavy loads of alkohol…
Lumpy: In other words, you haven’t met every gypsy in Bulgaria, or even properly researched a large enough cross-section to form a reliable statistical analysis (as in “Most of them are proud to live free, off of the work of others, by stealing, prostituting and cheating”*) so STOP TALKING SHIT.
Right, I have only lived here for ten years. So I haven’t met every Gypsy in Bulgaria, maybe only about 4-500 . Statistically, of the 400 or more I have dealt with, 355 were beggars, prostitutes (they usually steal too, but never tried one) and thieves. 20-30 seemed like decent enough people (maybe) and 20 or so have become my friends, so, considering MY personal experience, 50-not bad, 350-criminal = 85% trash. Do the math.
So I pre-judge, based on real life experience, unless they show themselves to be different. I still wouldn’t walk into a Gypsy neighborhood at night. Would you walk into Watts, or Harlem at night? Not all blacks are violent bigots who would kill you for your color, but chances are you would meet more than enough who are, if you did.
Anybody who says they are not prejudiced are either helpless idiots, idiotic idealists or are deluding themselves. Everyone pre-judges, only enlightened people realize this and leave the door open for exceptions. You, and others here, make me think most Australians are lawless idiots. But, I will still meet with an Australian, still, I may not invite him to my home.
I am not talking shit, like you.
David Wolf
Lumpy: It’s because you talk about Gypsies as a single-minded mass, contrary to all the evidence.
Oh, I forgot to ask, just what ‘evidence’ are you referring to? Some slanted BS from Amnesty International, who have their own ‘bleeding heart’ agenda? I have read several books published by The World Bank, on ‘The Roma Problem’ in Bulgaria, who have been trying to integrate the Roma culture for years all across Europe, and have held several symposiums featuring prominent Roma representatives.
Even the Roma said it was about hopeless, as most of the prejudice is caused by the behavior of some percentage of the Roma population and can not be stopped, and all they ask for is the opportunity for the ones that want to to be educated (actually, it is the law, ignored by many Gypsies) and work, but that same prejudice (due to actual behavior) prevents anyone from wanting to hire a Gypsy.
There was one shinning example of a Roma made good. He was a prominent cardio-vascular doctor, who was so good he got grants and opened THE BEST cardio hospital in Bulgaria. It cost a fortune to go there, but it was the best, with internet in every room.
He was indited 3 years ago, or so, for stealing millions from the hospital. That really didn’t help the image much, did it?
Get your head out of your ass.
David Wolf
Everybody who want to organise and participate in project to free Palfreeman who must be free or i die, write to krislav at gmail.com. Previous email i gave was wrong (valsirk at gmail.com) sorry bout that. Words are nothing action is everything. Good nazi is a dead one.
@ndy: anglos are already very unpopular with a lot of bulgarians, and some of those bulgarians happen to be involved in the police/legal system.
Aside from your typos, this is the truth. The barbaric behavior of British, American and Australian guests has really changed the attitude here toward foreigners. It used to be that Germans were the worst, but no longer.
When I first came here there were very few, and being a foreigner here was something special.
Now I know people who come and are treated badly, just because they are perceived as being rude, arrogant, insensitive foreigners. This is being played down, in the press, because Bulgaria needs tourist money, but many of my visiting friends have told me that they are being treated badly because of the Michael Shields and Jock crimes. People who think this is Botswana, or the wild, wild west.
I don’t feel it because I have been here so long, speak the language and know how to act like a Bulgarian, not an arrogant foreigner who thinks he comes from god[‘]s ass.
I am often embarrassed by the behavior of my guests from America or Briton, and apologetically smile at the server, who understands (and tip her well for her/his tolerance).
David Wolf
(David, I’m not sure whose the “typos” are but I was quoting ash.)
BTW, When I typed Michael Shields, I *DID NOT* include the link that was attached by this site.
I do not believe Michael Shields is innocent. He was a brutal hooligan who did the crime and must do the time. I *AM* sorry they released him to serve his time in an English jail and deprived the Gypsies here of their good fun.
If you love Jock, start collecting money for vasoline and Preparation H(c), he will need it.
David Wolf
@ndy:
No need to be so harsh.
At least I can spell Seargent [sic] Major. If you do “get it” then why are you continuing to legitimise the actions of someone who is accused of mudering [sic] someone else by trying to turn the whole thread into race hate etc. I mean trying to correlate the actions of Jock with some political struggle. I am leaving this thread because it does not represent what it should be. A rational and insightful debate about how the case of Jock Palfreeman should be defended or debated.
So let me understand it, Jock goes to school and tries to “stop the war”, he then decides that the best way to do this is to join the ‘British Army’, having then decided to do that he goes to Sofia with a punk look (Recall Syd [sic] Viscious [sic] wearing the Swastika in [sic] the immortal song ‘[P]retty [V]acant’) and clothing that is completely the opposite. What a crock of BS.
In terms of the other famciful [sic] discussions about the proliferation of Nazism in the 1930’s you should probably look at how, and where their financial support came from.
I understand it is warm in Australia at this time of year, perhaps should stay out of the sun.
You PLUS Internet = 0.
Anti friend ti si palen bokluk – just for the record nobody anywhere in this forum says we should adore Hitler. Hitler was a murderer, all it says is that in terms of conquering Europe he was genius. It is not only the killings, it is the tactics he used etc… but anyway that’s a point of view and yes he was a murderer and it is horrible what he did.
Most 20 year olds take pictures of themselves when they are at parties – obviously there is alcohol. What r u on about anti-friend. Go and meet up with friend and raise your points! Leave the guy memory rest in peace.
@ndy = trendy pen name for complete knob-head who has discovered philosophy. Its all been done before yawn… Please please say something of value… No actually thats an oxymoron… There @ndy you can look that one up on your lunch break. Make sure your back by 2, so you can relieve the other receptionist for lunch and get back on the internet.
Changing my pen name to √ so I can be @cool.
David Wolf :
You raise many good points, but then seem to lose me when you revert to the gypsy bashing. Clearly you have a maths background, so you understand logic. So whats the missing link.
I see linkage but the personalisation dilutes you POV – This is how you come across
– knowledgable
– immersed in the affairs of bulgaria
– a journalistic style
Who is david wolf we ask?
Now please don’t degenerate into an @ndy work of fiction. 🙂
How is the wine in bulgaria? Worth investing?
Maybe we could slip some into Jocks cell.
David:
Indeed — I was being sneaky. I do not know if Michael Shields is guilty or innocent. On the one hand, that’s what a court decided. On the other, another man has confessed to the same crime. Your running commentary on Gypsies and now prison rape suggest that you are a rather unpleasant person.
Porridge / √:
To some, a steaming bowl of oats is a breakfast-time treat, while to others it may bring back bad memories of being force-fed a sticky, milky mess before heading out to school.
You belong to the latter category.
When I write that: —
“Your appraisal of the situation and the reasons for it are not what I’d call subtle. You’ve made the point three times now that you believe Jock was drunk and/or drug-addled, that there was no legitimate reason for his actions, and that he may have been temporarily insane (although you’re ambivalent on this point).
I get it.”
— I don’t believe that, in pointing out your lack of subtlety (you have little or no sympathy for Jock) and repetitive nature (you make the same point over and over), I’m being especially harsh. Your subsequent commentary merely re-confirms this not-especially-harsh assessment. Thus:
1) Your contributions are littered with misspellings;
2) I am not trying to legitimise murder and;
3) I am not trying to turn this whole thread into ‘race hate'(?).
Nevertheless, I appreciate your attention to detail, and have corrected my spelling error.
In terms of your understanding of the meaning and purpose of Jock’s life, I’m sure that there are many who will read your words with as much rapt fascination as I do, and with as much anticipation of the next installment as your unveiling of the financiers behind the Nazi regime.
Porridge, the Gypsy bashing is simply a result of my personal experience. I try to treat everybody equally until they give me reason not to, but the sad situation here has overcome my attempts.
I give private English lessons in Sofia, to individuals and for company groups.
The red wine here is excellent. I particularly like the red Merlot from Melnik. If you know where to buy it, it the village, you get the real thing, not the watered down for the public (still good) commercial bottled wine. This is so black you can’t see through a glass, and it leaves a delightful ring around your mouth. It’s more of a food than a wine, you almost have to chew it.
David Wolf
“Google “Ian Stuart” and you’ll see what I mean”
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Ok just done that, hell do you think we should meet first? You naughty Anarchist you.
To Vik & Friend: You are continuously searching a reason, that would “legitimise” the nazi cult. Hitler a genius? He didn’t have any education at all. Tactics? A war tactics means human deaths and it is designed by the generals, not by 1.5 meter high persons full of illusions. So may be, in your point of view, Stalin is even greater, because of his “tactics” – not even a step into retreat?!
I well recall the moments in which Andrey Monov was defending Dr. Mengele with eager and passion. He always was saying that the Nazi Doctor had been actually a person full of strong points, without a single spot of sin…
Something similar was the situation with Rudolf Hess- he loved to explain his historical “inspiration”, his passion to help the Third Reich, and his love to Hitler when writing “Mein Kampf”…
About the alcohol- everybody is free to do anything, if he/she does not harm anybody else. The situation with Andrey was to such a point, that he felt “spiritual delight” from hurting and bullying the others. Here, his strong addiction to the alcohol tool a key important role. I can speak with hours, but still… I think it’s better to speak in the court.
Yes anti friend you could tell them that it’s fair and reasonable to kill a young man because you think he is a fascist/Nazi. That would mean that it is fair and reasonable for people to go out and start killing anyone who is also a supporter of Communism or dare I sat it Zionism what the heck all the isms in the world.
Someone has been killed here. He will never have the chance of kissing his children hugging his mother or father or making the world a better place. He was murdered found guilty by an Australian and executed without trial. Not that being a National Socialist or a Patriot is illegal yet.
What if Andrey was a supporter of National Socialism? Could it be that when he is 30 he may be a supporter of some other ism. We will never know he has been killed and anything he may have been in the future has been stolen from him and his family. You are truly sick.
In principle in Bulgaria it is forbidden to be a National Socialist by the constitution. My point is that nobody deserves to die in that way, but everybody has the right of self defense. Let’s wait for the court trial…
Anti friend I agree u r f. sick in the head. You will speak in the court? hahaha what for to say that a dead man was not a good man? This is absolutely irrelevant and will not help a murderer to escape jail. Better leave your thoughts at home because you are getting funny. I dont care what u think of Dr. Mengele etc. if these stuff are studied at school there is a reason and some people did many bad things back then because there were forced to.
The court case is : a guy killed another guy. why did the killer use a knife and why he attacked, not who the killed person was, no one wants to know the facts about andrey you are telling here. people need to know was the aussie attacked and is this what provoked his attack or is the aussie a killer who needs to stay behind bars. Got it???? Plus u keep on talking about racism and gypsies, however Jock is not actually a gypsy so i cant get the relevance in your stories. in Bulgaria gypsies are with dark skin and look like indians, so they have nothing to do with your gypsies in OZ, NZ, UK.
vic
anti friend i would strongly agree with you here, everybody has the right to self defense. however i dont see any wounds or even scratches on Jock, so noone touched him, second i dont see how if really attacked by 8 guys Jock will have time to get his knife out and how will stab two people at the back???? that doesnt sound like self defence. And only after Jock learnt that there is cctv in that area only then they decided the pretend he was in a rage of insanity???? Come on man its more than obvious he is lying.
SOUNDS LIKE A ONE MAN [vigilante] GROUP
STABBING THE GUILTY TO PROTECT THE [innocent].
LAST TIME I CHECKED ITS STILL ILLEGAL TO CARRY A KNIFE BUT ALL U CUNTS WITH YOUR ONE SIDED VIEWS SEE PAST THAT AND HAVE DECIDED TO GIVE HIM THE RIGHTS OF A POLICE OFFICER TO USE DEADLY FORCE WHENEVER HE DEEMS NECESSARY. PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR FUCKING ARSES THIS DESERVES TO BE PUNISHED A YOUNG MAN IS DEAD AND PUNISHMENT IS WELL DESERVED.
GIVE YOUR MATE ALL THE SUPPORT U CAN HELL NEED IT AND ALWAYS BE THERE FOR HIM BUT ACCEPT WHAT HE [did] IS WRONG (LEVEL OF HOW WRONG IT IS IS STILL DEBATABLE) AND JUST HOPE HE LEARNS FROM IT, HAS A FAIR TRIAL AND STAYS HEALTHY NO MATTER THE OUTCOME.
Jim: I agree (that it’s deplorable to kill anyone), but that isn’t what is being argued. The argument I’ve heard from Jock’s friends is that it was self-defense, not a summary execution for Andrey being a Nazi.
It’s almost as if you project a terrible morality on people you disagree with in order to have something to blame when life doesn’t go your way.
Anti friend is it also forbidden “in principle” to be a Communist? One would think so. After all Communism has killed and murdered far more people than National Socialism ever did. In fact people are still being sent to concentration camps and murdered by Communist Dictators as we speak. Ever heard of North Korea? What about Zionists? They sure are racking up a fair body count.
From the sound of it if you apply the same logic as you have with the victim then his killer must be a Communist or a Communist sympathizer. Maybe Bulgaria should outlaw Australian Communists in principle?
Maybe the law is different when it comes to murder in Bulgaria. In Australia unless the killer is a Non White stabbing someone to death is a sure fire way of spending the next 13 years of your life in Gaol.
From what I read here you are all clutching at straws. Just admit it, you left wing nut jobs think killing someone because they may believe in Nationalism should be rewarded. The thin line that separates the Anarchist and the Anti Fa from Stalinism is being crossed on a daily basis.
anti friend
if you have info that you want to be passed on to jocks famliy please find me on face book im in the jock palfreemans not guilty group
Yeah, whether Jock was kind to children and helped the poor, or Andy was misguided politically still leaves the fact that Jock pulled a knife and used it.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
David Wolf
@ndy, I’m curious: Have you had to delete many messages on this forum?
I think you removed one of mine, but I’m not sure.
I’m sure it’s a very passionate subject for many people and I wouldn’t be surprised if some postings were just too much.
Thanks.
David Wolf (and I’m actually not a very unpleasant person)
anti friend, razbrah koi si.
idvam.
Hey..I just found out the story from Jock’s ex girl.
I met Jock when he stayed in Greece for a couple of months with his ex gf.
I can not believe this shit sorry!Jock is a decent and very nice person who would NEVER kill someone!We went out a lot of time here in Greece and had some drinks.HE is such a cool guy.He is the person that would try to defend someone innocent!He stayed in Bulgaria for some months before joining the army and worked there!He did like it and thought that he would appreciate life and how people earn their money if he worked hard and didn’t have a fancy office job.
Have you got any more news please about the story?
I was talking about that National Socialism is prohibited by the Constitution, as well as being a National-Socialist. There is no Law against Communism, at least in Bulgaria, but that does not mean that I support Communism. My point of thinking is that Andrey truly hated everybody that he regarded “different”, especially the foreigners, the Gypsies and the Jews. Thus I strongly believe, that he induced Jock to use his LAWFUL right of self-defense.
Andrey could mock at foreigners and their “IQ” levels with hours and hours, around the clock… Do you believe that a person, not induced by the circumstances would attack a group of 10 people? I doubt it. Even if Jackie Chan comes to Bulgaria he does not have a chance against 10 people-get serious. Nobody starts such an attack, except the cases in which he feels threatened about his life. Think in logical manner.
I’ve checked that the version of what happened of Andrey’s friends is already online. I’ve wonder finally how many people were there? There are 3 versions I’ve read-5, 10 and 15 people.
Just a small comment: I hate when journalists play with pathology facts. It is written in an article, published on the site in memory of Andrey, that:”it is impossible while in self defense, to give a blow like that”.
Actually, if someone misses to hit you, you can receive just that blow-it is studied in 3rd year medicine. Still, I am convinced myself it was a matter of self defense.
Another “unclear” issue published, is the information that actually there was a struggle or some kind of fight prior to Jock’s actions. What actually happened with the previous fight? It is argued that it was for a quite short time, nobody knocked down, etc, etc, and soon the participants in the first fight continued their way. In that very moment, as is written, Jock attacked without an obvious reason…- No way in my opinion.
David:
“@ndy, I’m curious: Have you had to delete many messages on this forum?
I think you removed one of mine, but I’m not sure.”
No, I haven’t. In fact, I can’t recollect not having published any comment.
Generally speaking, unless a comment is simply abusive, or repetitive — occasionally someone will send the same post twice — I’ll publish it. The only exceptions are with regards a handful of regular commenters whose opinions I find fit almost always into one or both of the above categories.
A commenter called ‘KinkyBoy’ for example, has an obsession with Jews; all — and I do mean all — of his comments represent a denunciation of The Jew. Another is a teenage Stalinist called Peter, who adopts various pseudonyms and posts the kind of stuff you’d expect a slightly cracked teenage Stalinist to post. I also refuse to publish the comments of a local called ‘pr’… but that’s another story.
With regards your own posts, it’s possible I didn’t publish one — I’m not absolutely sure — but I think it was because it was a very slight variation on a post made by you which immediately preceded it. In any case, the right to edit posts is a right I reserve. As yet, it hasn’t proved necessary to make any kind of ‘policy’ or to make it explicit, but maybe I will one day.
See also:
To be a nazi, facist, racist or nationalist doesn’t mean you have to be a skinhead, in fact, most of the right-wing football hooligans in Europe tend to dress casual, copying the football hooligans in England, most of whom haven’t had a significant skinhead crew since the early 80’s. Yes, a lot of skinheads are nazis and the media uses this image when it wants to portray a nazi but many skinheads are anti-nazi. Trying to say that someone isn’t a football hooligan, nazi or a nationalist because they’re not a skinhead is a very weak argument. Secondly, if you look alternative you are more susceptible to attack from right-wing groups as some (but by far, not all) alternative-looking people have left and anti-authoritarian views, especially here in eastern Europe. I live in Prague in the Czech Republic and Nazis were meant to be marching in Pilzen today but the march was banned so they are now congregating in Prague, everyone here who looks like Punks know to avoid the city centre unless absolutely necessary and even then, to go in groups or carry something to defend yourself. Eastern Europe is great and the vast majority of people are warm, friendly and very welcoming but this doesn’t mean that all are. There is a massive problem with nationalism, fascism and racism in eastern Europe but luckily, it’s on the decline as these countries integrate more with the rest of Europe.
That retard sick fucker with that hilarious name Jock is going to rot in a Bulgarian jail for the rest of his life.
He killed a Bulgarian in the centre of the Bulgarian capital. There is no way the courts are going to let him [off] I hope you understand that.
You can email president Bush if you want but there is no way we are letting this sick bastard out.
Conditions in Bulgarian jails are very bad.
Such a tragedy.
Andrey is comfy in his coffin but life for JOCK is hell and torture.
I’d just like to reiterate that Bulgaria is no place to come with an attitude. The people who live here welcome foreigners who respect the people and country, but it is no place for a drinking holiday if you think you are superior to Bulgarians.
I would not come to Australia, Singapore, or any other country and try to tell them how to run their country, I would observe and respect, appreciate, not rage into any group or act like an animal.
Respect is the key.
David Wolf
Snuffx if you judge a person by his name i really do feel sorry for you… I really do feel sorry also about your “strong” and “incontrovertible” arguments such as “sick fucker” or “retard” and etc… I hope that YOU DO understand that the jury is going to make the decision and NOT YOU 🙂 I hope you are also aware of the fact that George Bush is the President of the U.S.A. and not the President of Australia or of Bulgaria (lol). I would suggest that you should stop watching too many movies and also stop swearing at this conversation. We are all here to talk about the incident and not to fight about it 🙂 Finally i hope you DO realise that if self defense is proved then Jock will be a free man 😀
As it comes to you dear David Wolf i believe that in civilized countries people are free to drink as much as they want and enjoy their drinking holiday. I’ve never been in Bulgaria though i have a very close friend from there and i believe (judging from my friend) that Bulgaria is a quite free country full of people who are ready to welcome foreigners both the drunk ones and the sober ones. I don’t believe that Jock came there trying to tell people how to run their country. He was just a witness in a fight that decided to stand up for the person that was being beaten up. I know Jock and he wouldn’t get into a fight without any reason and most of all HE WOULD NEVER-NEVER KILL ANYONE. He is one of the most open-minded people I’ve ever met and in no case would he be a racist or a skinhead.
Christos,
Killing in self-defense still sends you to jail in Bulgaria, probably for less than if murder is proved, but in any case Jock is going to spend a very “happy” time [singing folks songs with] gypsies for several years at least.
I really don’t know what David Wolf is trying to prove. No one is saying that it’s ok to go to another country and behave like you own the place. As far as I understand it people are trying to say that the way this is being portrayed by yourself and others is not in Jocks character. It’s also been said that maybe Andrei Monov wasn’t the golden boy that his friends are arguing that he was. That is all. When someone kills someone else there are many stages in the legal system that can be applied to each individual case, from self-defence to manslaughter to pre-meditated murder. As far as I can see no-one on here is well-versed enough in the Bulgarian legal system or for that matter, in all areas of this particular case to really give an opinion on it. A judgement on his character by those who knew him is a different matter entirely.