(The Worst) Scabs Don’t Prosper…

Scabs don’t prosper…
January 22, 2010 by birmyboycott

On December 10, 2009, a gig took place in the Melbourne suburb of Brunswick.

The gig featured a dozen or so punk bands.

One of the bands scheduled to play was ‘The Worst’.

As it happens, ‘The Worst’ did not play, having been dropped from the bill.

There were several reasons for ‘The Worst’ being dropped.

1) ‘The Worst’ are one of the bands who scabbed on the community boycott of The Birmy.[1]

2) The vocalist for ‘The Worst’, known as Chunga, had previously expressed very strong opposition to the boycott — and his contempt for the “wankers” and “cocksuckers” (et cetera) who joined it — on his blog.

September 2007:

All these tossers that care sooo much about shutting down The Birmy need to get a fucking life!!! Them accusing us [of] supporting racists for playing at a pub… is no better than being a [N]azi! […] The crusty wankers who think they’re so good for being anti-racist are no fucking better than the [N]azis… They think they’re better than everybody!!! And they dislike anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs… Fuck off you cocksuckers and get a life!!!

Several weeks later, Chunga wrote:

Anyway… anarchy is a fag… that’s all I have to say to you Mr Moran… See how fast words travel my friends? Be careful what you write on the internet… Coz you never know when some stalker is gonna put it on there [sic] website. Thanx to the people who have supported us… and to the random [sic] people letting us know about this anarchist knobjockey Mr Moran…

“Mr Moran” is a reference to the anarchist and anti-fascist blogger ‘slackbastard’. The claim he is ‘Andrew Moran’ originates among Australian neo-Nazis, and has been in circulation since late 2005/early 2006.

As it happens, a number of anarchists took part in organising the gig. In light of the above — the status of ‘The Worst’ as scabs; Chunga’s drawing of a political equivalence between supporters of the boycott and Nazis, expressed contempt for anarchism and ‘fags’, and his repetition of a neo-Nazi rumour regarding the identity of a local, Melbourne anarchist — they decided to withdraw their assistance. This included the provision of a PA.

In conclusion: anarchists in Melbourne, including those who work in the music industry, have no interest in providing practical support to scabs or to groups and individuals openly hostile to anarchism. Put simply: if groups and individuals choose to support venues which provide a platform for neo-Nazism — such as The Birmingham Hotel when it was under fascist-sympathising management — then they should not expect anarchists (and other principled anti-fascists) to provide them with any form of practical assistance in future.[2]

[1] The other, Melbourne-based bands who scabbed on the boycott and who are still gigging are: Bulldog Spirit, Charter 77, Marching Orders, Napalm Hearts, Rankwaste, Scape, Slick 46, THC, The Boots and Wot Rot.

[2] The boycott was successful as it forced the fascist-sympathising manager — Gary Wayne Kitto — to leave the pub, following which new, non-fascist friendly management took over and revitalised it as a live venue. An indication of Gary’s political sympathies is demonstrated by, among other things, his decision to play songs by the US-based Klansman “Johnny Rebel” (Clifford Joseph Trahan) prior to the 2005 Ian Stuart Donaldson memorial gig. Johnny Rebel’s repertoire includes songs with the titles “Nigger, Nigger”, “In Coon Town”, “Who Likes a Nigger?”, “Nigger Hatin’ Me” and “Some Niggers Never Die (They Just Smell That Way)”. (Source: ‘B&H Australia I.S.D Sept 3, 2005.’, Blood & Honour, Number 33.)

And remember Kids…

Hold Fast Body Art : “It’s (neo-Nazi) shit!”

About @ndy

I live in Melbourne, Australia. I like anarchy. I don't like nazis. I enjoy eating pizza and drinking beer. I barrack for the greatest football team on Earth: Collingwood Magpies. The 2020 premiership's a cakewalk for the good old Collingwood.
This entry was posted in Anarchism, Anti-fascism, Collingwood, History, Music and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

37 Responses to (The Worst) Scabs Don’t Prosper…

  1. Lumpen says:

    Awesome.

  2. modernity says:

    [Off topic, but I am sure you will appreciate the significance of this issue]

    A British blogger has been intimidated by the police. The Reverend Stephen Sizer didn’t like comments and criticism made on the Seismic Shock blog, so got the police to physically intimidate the blogger, to take down that mild criticism.

    This is a clear freedom of speech issue, the police should not be used to intimidate bloggers.

    I urge you to publicise this issue and support Seismic Shock, as “I too am Seismic Shock”.

    For more information see http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/reverend-stephen-sizer-uses-british-police-against-a-blogger/

    And http://engageonline.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/anglican-vicar-uses-police-to-intimidate-blogger/

  3. shaun boots says:

    Hi there.
    don’t know who you are, really don’t care.
    first off thanks for the plug (any publicity is good publicity).
    secondly are you still on about this? really? you are sooo misinformed about most of the information here. the Birmingham was a fantastic place for young unknown bands to get a taste of playing an overage venue. a great place for ANYONE to go and get a cheap drink and see some bands. that’s why my band completely ignored that petty narrow minded boycott. same with the worst. ALSO keeping a list of people associated (no matter how loosely) with some kind of political movement seems awfully familiar to me…
    …shaun

  4. @ndy says:

    G’day shaun boots,

    I’m not sure what you mean when you write “are you still on about this?” as the post in question is dated January 22 and your comment May 4. I’m no mathematician, but by my calculations, you’re about 100 days late. As for the rest — Gary was sooo cool for a nigger-hatin’ fascist sympathiser etc. — most of that discussion took place at the end of 2006 and beginning of 2007; making you even moar tardy. Oh, and this may be news to you, but Gary left the pub in 2008. Finally, if you wish to address anything I’ve actually written, feel free.

    Cheers,

    @ndy.

  5. shaun boots says:

    so i’m a few months late, so what. I was only told about your stupid post a few days ago. your stupid post about something that happened years ago. and yes I do have something to say about stuff you have written.

    firstly the worst pulled out of the gig because their time slot was changed and they couldn’t do it. secondly you call the boots scabs. this term implies we would be getting paid and I can’t speak for all the bands that “scabbed” your boycott but i definitely never saw a cent from playing at the birmy.

    if anything you are a scab for not supporting my protest of the boycott in the name of free speech. maybe you didn’t know about my protest. well hey nobody ever contacted me about this boycott (even though you claim you did on this site). why do you oppose freedom of speech? also i found this somewhere and I assume it’s by you

    …and police have confirmed that Melbourne Croatia Social Club has arranged for Thompson to come and play. (Next gig @ The Birmy: December 1, 2007, with The Boots, Donkey Punch, Sewer Cider, The Worst and Wot Rot.) Speaking of hating Jews… Vorchheimer’s attackers plead guilty…

    I DON’T FUCKING APPRECIATE ACCUSATIONS OF ANTISEMITISM. you don’t know me and i doubt you’ve ever watched my band so what the fuck do you think your on about.

    from what I understand your boycott had very little if any impact on the sale of the birmy. so saying that the boycott was a success is stretching the truth to say the least. and it’s nothing to be proud of, it’s a serious blow to freedom. I probably think that racism is just as foolish as you do, but to try and stop a group of people from meeting and then calling yourself anti fascist? what a fucking joke.

  6. @ndy says:

    so i’m a few months late, so what.

    I raised this as an issue because you claimed that I’m “still on about this” — “this” referring, presumably, to issues surrounding the boycott of The Birmy — and your comment was made several months (May 2010) after I made this post (January 2010). To put it another way: most of the disco surrounding the boycott took place several years ago — the debate more-or-less ended when Gary pissed off in 2008.

    your stupid post about something that happened years ago.

    Actually, no. This post concerns something that happened in December 2009.

    firstly the worst pulled out of the gig because their time slot was changed and they couldn’t do it.

    Again, incorrect. If the band had taken to the stage, they would have been without a PA… although, technically speaking, I suppose they could have strummed a ukelele, or recited some poetry, instead. (Whether or not the punters would have appreciated this is, of course, another question.)

    secondly you call the boots scabs. this term implies we would be getting paid and I can’t speak for all the bands that “scabbed” your boycott but i definitely never saw a cent from playing at the birmy.

    Yes, I called your band scabs. No, it’s not because you’re well-paid performers (or because Gary was an especially generous man).

    Rather, it’s because you scabbed.

    On a boycott.

    (Look it up in a dictionary if you’re still unsure of the meaning of these or any other terms.)

    if anything you are a scab for not supporting my protest of the boycott in the name of free speech. maybe you didn’t know about my protest. well hey nobody ever contacted me about this boycott (even though you claim you did on this site). why do you oppose freedom of speech?

    Now you’re just being silly. Which is OK — I don’t care all that much if you choose to be silly — but if you want to be taken seriously, it helps to act like it.

    So: I contacted lots of bands about the boycott, either by email, via their myspace pages, or both. I can’t say for sure if I contacted The Boots as I no longer have access to my sent file from that period (roughly 2007).

    Are you claiming that the very first time you heard about the boycott was a coupla days ago? If so, I find this hard to believe. If not, then why are you complaining? It seems to me that, at the time, the issue of the boycott was actually pretty familiar to most of those connected in some way to the local punk scene, and many who weren’t.

    Finally:

    I’ve never accused The Boots of anti-Semitism. The quote comes from this post:

    16 year-old antifa stabbed to death in Madrid
    November 12, 2007

    …Local punks meanwhile, continue to drink, laugh at sing at local neo-Nazi venue The Birmingham, and police have confirmed that Melbourne Croatia Social Club has arranged for Thompson to come and play. (Next gig @ The Birmy: December 1, 2007, with The Boots, Donkey Punch, Sewer Cider, The Worst and Wot Rot.) Speaking of hating Jews… Vorchheimer’s attackers plead guilty, AJN, November 12, 2007, “TWO more footballers have pleaded guilty to verbally assaulting Menachem Vorchheimer as he walked home from synagogue in October last year…”

    You seem to have trouble with comprehension, so I’ll explain: Thompson is a Croatian performer, accused of being, among other things, anti-Semitic. The Social Club was the site of the 2007 ISD gig; in 2006, it was held at The Birmy.

    from what I understand your boycott had very little if any impact on the sale of the birmy. so saying that the boycott was a success is stretching the truth to say the least. and it’s nothing to be proud of, it’s a serious blow to freedom. I probably think that racism is just as foolish as you do, but to try and stop a group of people from meeting and then calling yourself anti fascist? what a fucking joke.

    As would seem obvious from your commentary, you understand very little.

    The boycott had as its aim the financial penalisation of The Birmy, with a view to its eventually being placed under the management of parties unsympathetic to B&H. I don’t have access to its books, obviously, but I do know that, as a result of mine and other’s efforts:

      the boycott received a small amount of media coverage, and was the subject of a small public protest;
      the boycott was the subject of a postering and stickering campaign, as well as a blog and a myspace page;
      the pub itself was graffitied;
      local council, some businesses, and a range of community groups became aware of and were supportive of the boycott;
      a number of bands committed to stop playing the venue, while others agreed never to perform at it;
      many more individuals committed to stop drinking at The Birmy;
      at least one gig was cancelled, and a number of bands withdrew from gigs that had already been organised;
      those bands which did play (including The Worst) complained of lowered attendances;
      the boycott was discussed on a number of forums, and IRL among many thousands in the local music industry, including performers, punters, pub owners, journos and moar;
      I received an unusually large amount of hatemail from the affected parties;
      when Gary eventually pissed off, I was contacted by those with an interest in taking over the pub to ascertain whether or not the boycott would continue if there was a change in management;
      one of the first things the new managers did upon taking over the pub was make a point of distancing it from the dickheads who used to run it.

    For all these reasons and moar, I think it reasonable to conclude that the boycott was, in fact, effective.

    Finally, you’re free to believe that the fact that a pub is no longer available to local neo-Nazis to organise events is “a serious blow to freedom”, but like many other things you’ve written, it’s a pretty silly thing to claim. It also suggests quite strongly that you don’t understand what fascism is, or how it might be opposed.

  7. shaun boots says:

    wow that’s pretty funny, you calling my protest silly. I think you have very poor comprehension skills because you don’t seem to realize how serious I am about the issue of censorship. and that’s really what this is about to me. you say I’m being silly? do you have any idea how silly people think you are?

    I know I’m not alone in my opinions. there is nothing you can do or say to change them. and obviously nothing anyone else says will change your opinions. you still with me? just think about that for a second. do you agree so far? now imagine a state of anarchy where you are trying to inflict your views onto somebody. what do you think would happen? (this is not a rhetorical question) maybe everybody will just agree to disagree? I’d be down with that. but somehow I cant really see it working out like that.

    I did fully know the reasons for the boycott in its very early stages. but only through word of mouth. I just completely disapprove of your methods. as you do mine.

    and speaking of liars, I don’t give a fuck who thompson is, in the following post you clearly list the bands that are playing a show at the birmy, then say speaking of hating Jews in the next fucking sentence. forgive my lousy comprehension but that seems an awful lot like an accusation to me. so take it the fuck down you fucking liar.

  8. Lumpen says:

    So. Shaun. Your protest has already failed, due to the oppressive nature of linear existence. You understand that, right? That protesting a successful boycott that is no longer in place means your protest has, by definition, failed? Shaun?

    …because you don’t seem to realize how serious I am about the issue of censorship.

    Serious business.

    So you can be for racism, and that’s freedom of speech, but if you’re against it, that’s censorship? You complete ballbag.

    My problem with the bands that scabbed on the boycott wasn’t that they didn’t give a shit, but that they actively sought to undermine the boycott, even when the facts were presented to them.

    The only people to benefit from this opposition were a) honest-to-god neo-nazis and b) bands who got a slot at the expense of others who took a principled stand.

    [Scabbing] implies we would be getting paid and I can’t speak for all the bands that “scabbed” your boycott but i definitely never saw a cent from playing at the birmy.

    Idiot. Scabbing does not solely imply monetary gain.

    scab |skab|
    noun
    Figurative or informal a person or thing regarded with dislike and disgust.
    • derogatory a person who refuses to strike or to join a labor union or who takes over the job responsibilities of a striking worker.

    Historically speaking, many blacklegs have scabbed for purely ideological reasons. “Scabbing” describes perfectly the act of both playing at the Birmingham during the (long-since removed) boycott and actively, if ineffectively, undermining it for reasons as petty as wanting a venue to play and supporting racist mates.

    It’s also worth pointing out that these scab pieces of shit also tried to give Mr Slackbastard’s details out publicly (despite being very wrong about pretty much everything) with the expressed intention of having him beaten or worse. But yeah, censorship is the issue at hand, right? Nice moral ground you’re standing on.

    The general consensus on the bands who scabbed on the boycott was that they were snotty little fuckheads with absolutely no idea of what it means to have principles, or empathy for other people, and they should be treated as such until they prove otherwise—with a bit of contempt and not much else. The only real stick we had to beat them with was naming and shaming, which resulted in some withdrawal of support for the scabs; other bands have refused to play with them, some resources have been denied to them.

    Your position stems from an incapability of understanding why someone might show solidarity with someone else over something like skin colour. Whites-only events are not cool. Declaring your neutrality with racists doesn’t make you edgy.

    I’m mostly commenting to compound your public embarrassment. Seriously, you should be ashamed for trying to argue an indefensible position without any clue as to what actually went on (or when). What I find just as amusing is that fact that I can say this to you and it still won’t change your position, and this will further demean you in the eyes of anyone who cares to read.

  9. a concerned bystander says:

    So I’m an anarchist who also happens to know Shaun and Chunga. They’re both really good guys who are not homophobic or racist or fascist, in fact I find them quite anarchistic in their own ways. They may use homophobic language, which I agree is really really shit, but the second they use it in front of people who are politically aware or queer, they tend to realise and apologise. I can totally understand people getting riled up by the homophobic language, but I also have to say, they don’t mean it in that way. It is that extremely widespread cultural practice of associating gay as bad, having made it into their language. It’s socially ingrained, and they are moving away from it. The language doesn’t mean that Chunga thinks being gay is bad, I know for a fact that he doesn’t think that.

    The main reason I am posting though is about the boycott and the free speech issue. This whole thing has gotten really out of hand. I understood the need for the boycott. However refusing to allow The Worst to have use of a PA because they scabbed the boycott may be taking it one step too far. Particularly if you look at their reasoning for scabbing. the birmy was special to them, without any of that being because of the neo-Nazis. I liked the birmy too, it was cheap and grimy. The boycott changed that and I can understand people being pissed at you about that. Basically they didn’t scab because they supported the neo-Nazis, they scabbed because they didn’t want to lose their pub and they didn’t want to stop playing their own music.

    You can’t expect to call a boycott and have absolutely everyone agree with you and go along with it. That’s not the way boycotts work, you’re always going to have people being loyal to a certain product or whatever. All you need is a vast majority and you’re sweet. That’s what happened, and you should get over singling out the scabs. To go and insinuate that these bands are neo-Nazis or even supporting neo-Nazis was a massive step too far and led to all of this narrow minded arguing which is continuing now. And which resulted in Loophole being harassed and swastika’d last year. You know that was ‘cos people from that scene were pissed off at you and somehow associated you with Barricade and then got mixed up and thought Barricade was at Loophole. I don’t know anything about the recent Loophole window smashing and who did that but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was related as well. Of course this kind of retaliation is fucked, but it’s still a retaliation.

    As soon as these bands got singled out, just because they didn’t side with a political movement against one of their favourite pubs, that’s where the problem really started. You can’t act like because these bands refused to boycott the birmy that they deserve to be treated like shit and boycotted as well. They are actually fairly apolitical lefties who believe that they should be able to do whatever they want (so long as it’s not hurting anybody else of course). These few bands in continuing to play the birmy didn’t hurt the boycott in the long run. As anarchists we need to be able to understand why people may not always go along with the things we suggest. The only way we’ll ever get anywhere near anarchism in the long run is to speak to and understand where other people are coming from.

    I just want to point out a number of issues in your responses to shaun above because I believe you’re continuing to aggravate the situation.

    Shaun saying ‘are you still on about this?’ and you jumping down his throat for being a few months late to this post is ridiculous. Shaun was obviously referring to the fact that The Worst were being denied the use of a PA (well after the boycott had ended), and that you felt cause to write about it on your site. That you continue this attack and make it seem like he is the one who is dragging up old shit is totally ridiculous.

    Secondly, Shaun didn’t mention Gary. Shaun mentioned reasons why the birmy was a great pub.

    Third, Shaun made a good point about you keeping a list of people who supposedly have a set of political views. Instead of responding to this you wrote ‘Finally, if you wish to address anything I’ve actually written, feel free.’

    Your comment ‘Now you’re just being silly. Which is OK — I don’t care all that much if you choose to be silly — but if you want to be taken seriously, it helps to act like it’ is really condescending. Now I know this is a blog and all kinds of stupid shit gets said in the comments, but remember these are people that we know in Melbourne. They live in the same suburbs as us. Ideologically speaking, they are actually not all that far off from being anarchists. Yet somehow you’ve made them hate anarchism and think anarchists are dickheads. Shaun’s initial post was serious, yet you didn’t take it seriously, instead not responding to points and going on about Gary and insinuating Shaun was out of it for bringing any of this up when it all happened years ago.

    Lastly, these guys are not neo-Nazis, and they are now not free to organise gigs at the birmy. You said:

    ‘Finally, you’re free to believe that the fact that a pub is no longer available to local neo-Nazis to organise events is “a serious blow to freedom”, but like many other things you’ve written, it’s a pretty silly thing to claim.’

    You’re right it’s not a serious blow to their freedom, and perhaps it’s a small price to pay in making sure that there are now no more actual neo-Nazi gigs at the birmy, but just look at your language. You can’t call these guys neo-Nazis and not expect them to get riled up about it.

  10. @ndy says:

    a concerned bystander,

    A few things.

    So I’m an anarchist who also happens to know Shaun and Chunga…

    1. While I would prefer it if people spoke to one another in ways that didn’t promote homophobic sentiment… I don’t really care what language Chunga and Shaun use when in the company of their friends. Or to put it another way: the idea that Chunga and/or Shaun apparently use the word ‘fag’ in a derogatory manner in everyday conversation may be unfortunate, but it doesn’t exactly keep me awake at night. That said, I’ll assume your comments are being made in reference to the fact that, once upon a time, Chunga wrote ‘anarchy is a fag’. Now, perhaps this isn’t obvious to you, but at the time I thought Chunga’s remark was genuinely amusing, and I still do — precisely because it was so spectacularly daft.

    As for your assessment of their overall character, it’s really not possible for me to comment — it’s also beside the point.

    However refusing to allow The Worst to have use of a PA because they scabbed the boycott may be taking it one step too far…

    2. Regarding the gig, I suggest you re-read the post. The reasons that the PA was not made available for the use of The Worst are made fairly clear I think.

    You can’t expect to call a boycott and have absolutely everyone agree with you and go along with it…

    3. Regarding your remarks on the boycott: yes, I understood why some bands (such as The Worst and The Boots) continued to perform at the pub, and that it wasn’t because they found Uncle Adolf’s vision of the future especially appealing; no, I didn’t expect everyone to agree that it was a good idea (and even if I did, I was very quickly disabused of the notion); no, its effectiveness did not require ‘the vast majority’ to agree with it, merely a number sufficient to have a real effect upon the pub’s income.
    4. I’ve never claimed that The Worst are “neo-Nazis”: if you have any evidence to this effect, provide it.
    5. Regarding Loophole: I’m aware of the fact that, at some point last year (or perhaps it was 2008?), somebody did something like you claim, but I don’t know who, and I don’t know what were the repercussions (if any). I also know nothing about “the recent Loophole window smashing and who did that” — your comment is the first I’ve heard of it. What either incident has to do with The Worst or The Boots, I dunno. Until such time as they claim responsibility, or somebody else claims ‘I saw (Chunga / Shaun / whoever) throw a brick through the window at Loophole’ (or whatever), I’m not sure that there’s much point in speculating who did what or why.

    As soon as these bands got singled out, just because they didn’t side with a political movement against one of their favourite pubs…

    6. Leaving aside the question of bands, political movements, favourite pubs, precisely where and when the problem started (and what, in fact, it consists of), the statement “You can’t act like because these bands refused to boycott the birmy that they deserve to be treated like shit and boycotted as well” is incorrect. Being treated like shit, and not being offered the use of a PA for the reasons outlined above, are two very different things. Again, I suggest you re-read the post. Beyond this, I’d simply add: what others decide to do is up to them; if others decided not to play or drink at the birmy, it wasn’t because I told them not to, it was because they agreed that the boycott was a good idea.

    Finally:

    7. I obviously don’t know what goes on inside your friends’ heads: they may well be full to the brim with ‘fairly apolitical left-wing ideas’ (whatever that means). Instead, I’m forced to rely upon what they say and do. What Chunga said about myself, the birmy, and so on, is recorded elsewhere. So too, the fact that his band, and a number of others, continued to play at the birmy after it was revealed that it hosted the 2006 ISD gig (and numerous other neo-Nazi gigs before it); that Gary had been approached years earlier with concerns about his allowing neo-Nazis to meet at and to hold events at the pub; that Gary lied about the 2006 ISD gig; and that a (black) woman was assaulted on the night in question.
    8. What Chunga or Shaun or anybody else thinks individuals ‘should’ be able to do is completely beside the point; in continuing to play at the birmy, they made a decision to support, financially, a manager and a pub with this record. Nobody forced them to do so. The only consequences, at the time, were that the fact of their support would be recorded — and therefore not forgotten. Now, a few years later, some anarchists refused to provide The Worst the use of a PA. Chunga and Shaun and anybody else are free to believe that anarchists ‘should’ provide them with this service; the anarchists in question have decided otherwise. As far as I’m concerned, these are relatively mild repercussions.
    9. As one ‘anarchist’ to another: yes, it’s useful to understand why people do the things that they do. It’s also crucial to understand that, in the final analysis, understanding is not synonymous with responsibility. So, I can ‘understand’ why some bands chose to continue to play at the birmy; at the same time, the responsibility for this decision rests with them, not me. Further, I’m not a charity or social worker. Thus it’s not actually my job to listen to other people’s problems, and to try to help them overcome them — Flavor Flav’s got problems of his own.

    Moar later.

  11. @ndy says:

    1.

    Shaun saying ‘are you still on about this?’ and you jumping down his throat for being a few months late to this post is ridiculous…

    I see little point in discussing this… point… any further. See above.

    2.

    Shaun didn’t mention Gary. Shaun mentioned reasons why the birmy was a great pub…

    Yeah: funny that. Here’s something else that’s rooly funny: the lyrics to “Nigger Hatin’ Me” by Johnny Rebel. You know… the artiste Gary played for the benefit of the boneheads who attended the 2005 ISD?

      I like sugar, and I like tea
      But I don’t like niggers… no siree!
      There’s two known things that’ll make me puke
      And that’s a hog eatin’ slop, and a big, black spook!

      You know it… cause I show it
      Like a barn-yard rooster I crow it!
      And the NAACP
      Would sure like to get a-hold of nigger-hatin’ me!

      Roses are red, and violets are blue
      And niggers are black, you know that’s true
      But they don’t mind, ’cause what the heck!
      You gotta be black to get a welfare check!

      And I’m broke… no joke
      I ain’t got a nickel for a coke!
      And I ain’t black, you see
      So Uncle Sam won’t help poor nigger-hatin’ me

      Jig-a-boo, jig-a-boo… where are you?
      I’s here in the woodpile… watchin’ you
      Jig-a-boo, jig-a-boo… come out!
      No! Cause I’m scared of the white mans a-way down South

      You know it!… cause I show it
      Stick your black head out and I’ll blow it!
      And the NAACP
      Can’t keep you away from little old nigger-hatin’ me!

      Mirror, mirror… on the wall
      Who is the blackest of them all?
      A man named King, and there ain’t no doubt
      That he’s causin’ lots of trouble with his baboon mouth

      Brewin’… he’s a doin’
      It’s caused by the trouble he’s a-brewin’
      And the NAACP
      Can’t win if the white men stick with nigger-hatin’ me!

      Hey! Mr. President! What do you say?
      When are we whites gonna have our day?
      The niggers had there’s such a long, long time
      I’m white, and it’s time that I had mine!

      You know it… cause I show it!
      Stick your black head out and I’ll blow it!
      And the NAACP
      Can’t win if the white man sticks with nigger-hatin’ me!

    On the other hand, Gary let some bands play in his pub, but didn’t pay them.

    End of story.

    3.

    Third, Shaun made a good point about you keeping a list of people who supposedly have a set of political views. Instead of responding to this you wrote ‘Finally, if you wish to address anything I’ve actually written, feel free.’

    I don’t know precisely what Shaun means. Presumably, “a list of people who supposedly have a set of political views” means, in reality, a list of the bands that played the birmy after the ISD gig (that is, the 2006 gig: not the 2005 gig, or the neo-Nazi gigs which took place prior to the 2005 and 2006 ISD gigs). Which is true. There is a list. It’s located here. I’m not sure exactly what’s good about Shaun’s mistake, however, which is why I asked him to refer to something — anything — that I’d actually written.

    4.

    Your comment ‘Now you’re just being silly. Which is OK — I don’t care all that much if you choose to be silly — but if you want to be taken seriously, it helps to act like it’ is really condescending.

    Yeah, it is. Kinda. But then, it’s my honest opinion that Shaun’s complaints are kinda childish. So what? And yeah, Shaun lives in Melbourne. So does Chunga. So do I, so do you, and so do over 3.8 million other people. Again, so what? Why should I pay Shaun or Chunga any more attention than I do the people I actually know? These are your friends, not mine. I haven’t made them ‘do’ anything, and I don’t care what they think. Why should I? And why shouldn’t the reverse be the case? That is:

      Dear Shaun and Chunga,

      Now I know this is a blog, and that it receives all kinds of comments, but remember that slackbastard and his comrades live in Melbourne. Ideologically speaking, they are anarchists. By scabbing on a boycott of a neo-Nazi pub, by telling all those people who supported the boycott that they need to get a fucking life, by accusing them of being Nazis and fascists and crusty wankers and cocksuckers for doing so, by making the bizarre claim that ‘anarchy is a fag’, and by claiming that the success of the boycott was a serious blow to human freedom — somehow you’ve made them think that you’re wankers. The use of a Fitzroy pub by neo-Nazis is, it could be argued, a serious problem (especially for those who happen to be guilty of walking past it while being black). And yet your response — “don’t know who you are, really don’t care… thanks for the plug” / “you got a whole bunch of your fuckbag mates hating me… anarchist knobjockey” — suggests that you don’t take it seriously…

    5.

    …but just look at your language…

    I have looked at my language. In fact, I spend an inordinate amount of time looking, thinking, reading and writing. To be Frank and stop calling me Shirley, I really don’t think my language is the problem. On the contrary, I’m very measured in my use of it, and give careful consideration to my words. This is probably why a number of people have commented to the effect that I’m a good writer. More to the point: I’ve never called “these guys” — in this case, The Worst and The Boots — “neo-Nazis”. In fact, on a number of occasions, I’ve stated the contrary. If you believe otherwise, that’s your prerogative. A simple test is the following: indicate where I’ve claimed that these bands are “neo-Nazis”.

    But speaking of language, here are some other words.

    slackbastard:

    …in 2004, B&H Australia and the SCHS organised for a band from Texas called the Bully Boys to tour Australia and to play the 2004 ISD memorial gig. A local bonehead describes their performance as follows:

      Next was the band that we had all been waiting to see and we weren’t disappointed!! The Bully Boys!! They played an awesome set, with tunes like ‘Jigrun’ and ‘Fire Up the Ovens’. A few of the lads had gotten hold of some Jew[’]s yarmulke and took a light to it and handed it to Scott while he was singing ‘Six Million More’! Seeing that burn to the tune of that song was brilliant. What a showman!

    The lyrics to ‘Jigrun’ read, in part: “Whiskey bottles / Baseball bats / Pickup trucks / And rebel flags / We’re going on the town tonight / Hit and run / Let’s have some fun / We’ve got jigaboos on the run / And they fear the setting sun”. The authors of these loving lyrics, the Bully Boys are closely linked to the Hammerskins. In 1990, drummer Sean Tarrant was one of several Confederate Hammerskins sentenced to nearly 10 years in prison after pleading guilty to civil rights convictions for involvement in the vandalization of a mosque and a Jewish community center in Dallas, and chasing and assaulting minorities in a park. Their current lead vocalist has also spent time in jail on assault charges.

    Shaun:

    I think am going to download burn and distribute for free 20 albums by this band the bully boys.

    boxba:

    Filmed during the course of the Bully Boys’ Australian tour in 2004, and featuring a glittering array of local bonehead super*s.

    Sieg heil.

  12. shaun boots says:

    DEAR @NDY PANDY

    This will be my last my last post as I’m actually one of the most apathetic people you could ever encounter. it just gets to me when people slag off my band for it political views (we proudly have very few) rather than the music (really don’t mind that).

    whats your problem with apathy anyway? why dose it necessarily have to be against anarchy? if everybody was totally apathetic all the time it would pretty much be anarchy. there would be no more Nazis. I never really expected you to take anything Ive said seriously (except for my reasons for scabbing your boycott and my stance on censorship) so don’t assume I did or that I wanted you to. in fact I try to make a joke out of most of what I do as it helps me get by in this world of fools. I don’t no how anybody can actually think you are a good writer. your style is so overly convoluted, misleading, hypocritical and biest. I really don’t like the way you lump everything that me and Chung have said in together, trying to make it seem like with both said those things or we both fell the exact same way about you / anarchy / boycott / what people think of us ect. he may be a close mate, but we don’t feel the same way about everything as you suggest in you previous post, and I think that’s perfectly healthy.

    why do you feel the need to let me no about how great a writer you are? you seem to think your pretty great in general, some kind of hero complex perhaps? personally I think its better to accept that most people suck, including me and you, and try and find what happiness you can in life. like playing a punk show in some shitty pub. anyway @ndy its a small world so maybe we will meet someday and can chat in person but I’m done for now as I hate posting on these things. witch is why you haven’t heard from me till recently.

    to Lumpen. I really don’t want to dignify your comment with a response as its stupid. I will say though that I never said there is anything wrong with being anti racist. I did however say it is wrong to try and stop Nazis meeting. as I would say if they did the same to you.

    to concerned bystander: thanks for you comment. you totally don’t suck.

    to anyone else: fag doesn’t mean homosexual any more. its just somebody annoying, and not just coz south park said.

    also @ndy im working on some songs on the topic, if your interested in hearing or even posting them in lo-fi acoustic glory send some-kind of contact info to my e-mail address. no hate-mail I swear, that’s what the blogs for.

    p.s. dose the @ in @ndy stand for @narchy or for @sshole? he he he

  13. Dr. Cam says:

    Why are they so fucking dumb? Standing too close to the speakers? Inhaling glue fumes from their hair?

  14. @ndy says:

    DEAR SHAUN (THE SUBURBANITE WITH BrANES LIKE THE BARBERINI FAUN),

    First, an apology.

    Your right.

    And I’m sorry.

    Sorry that I foolishly attempted to impress you with my ability to write good.

    And I confess.

    I really don’t no why I felt the need to let you no about how great a writer I am. If I do seem to think that I’m pretty great in general, it may be that I have some kind of hero complex: this would certainly help to explain why my style is so overly convoluted, misleading, hypocritical and biest…

    On a lighter note:

    I’ve said nothing about your band’s political views.

    In the post above, the only reference to your band is the following: “The other, Melbourne-based bands who scabbed on the boycott and who are still gigging are: Bulldog Spirit, Charter 77, Marching Orders, Napalm Hearts, Rankwaste, Scape, Slick 46, THC, The Boots and Wot Rot.”

    That’s it. And it’s a factually correct observation: your band played The Birmy on July 7 and December 1, 2007. And it’s still gigging.

    In your second comment, you refer to a passage from a blog post regarding the murder, in November 2007, of Carlos Javier Palomino, the 16-year-old teenage skinhead from Madrid. As already noted, you mis-read this passage as meaning that I was accusing The Boots of being anti-Semitic, and “I DON’T FUCKING APPRECIATE ACCUSATIONS OF ANTISEMITISM”.

    Now, notwithstanding the fact that I have a well-deserved reputation for a writing style that is overly convoluted, misleading, hypocritical and biest, I reckon that, if I thought The Boots were anti-Semitic, I’d probably write something like: “The Boots are anti-Semitic”.

    Mmmkay?

    Finally:

    Your valuable insights on the relationship between being a short-sighted consumer and the creation of a classless, non-hierarchical society — as well as your intriguing thesis regarding the role of these same modes of consciousness and behaviour in undermining the grip Nazi Germany held over Europe during the 1940s — have been duly noted and;
    Please consider your mission to make a joke out of what you do, in this case at least, to be a roaring success…

    Kinda like the boycott eh?

    Tee hee! Tee hee hee!

  15. Äpärä says:

    I think the quality of Melbourne punk bands is reminiscent of their attitudes towards social situations such as this gig and the birmy boycott, and I’m not the only one who agrees that Melbourne punk needs a kick in the arse and some better bands singing about meaningful stuff rather than drinking, porn and how punk they are.

    The issue here isn’t whether @ndy is claiming these bands are nazis, as they certainly are not, apathetic yes and it shows in their music, but not nazis. The issue is, if bands really hold a venue above the safety and well being of their audience and the wider community, they can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned, and before any of you self righteous punks out there accuse me of being a crusty hippie then get this: I hate crust punk and I happen to be a massive chaotic dischord fan and love all things UK82. I refuse to tolerate nazis in the punk scene or any venue that assists in allowing nazis to congregate and play music.

    Free speech you say? Would free speech be granted to you if Nazism were to rise again? Of course it wouldn’t! Why should we give free speech to the very people whose agenda it is to take it away from us?

    If beer is what’s really important to you then make home brew instead, it’s cheaper than any pub would be willing to sell it to you for. Need a venue? Play a house show or a park! It’s really not that hard to organise a show that isn’t in some shitty pub with a pillar in the middle of the band room. Take a good hard look at yourself Melbourne punk scene and get off your arse.

    It’s simple: if you slag off anarchists and punks associated with anarchist groups, don’t expect their help.

    “Why are they so fucking dumb? Standing too close to the speakers? Inhaling glue fumes from their hair?”

    I resent that Doctor Cam, glue is fun in moderation…

  16. unconcerned bystander says:

    SUBURBAN PRIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    dave warners from the suburb’s 1978 promo vid from melbourne rock legend!

  17. @ndy says:

    Perth, actually.

  18. butcher says:

    Hey @ndy, yeah Loophole’s windows got smashed a li’l while ago. Maybe like two months or so? Sorry, I’ve got a really bad sense of time.

    Anyway, from my understanding, which is very limited, was that unlike the nazi graffiti that regularly goes up on the MARC building, this attack was not specifically targeting Loophole. Instead, it appeared the attack was done in conjunction with other property damage along High St. It may have been politically motivated, or just a case of drunks being drunks. I don’t know. Again, this is all from second- or third-hand sources.

  19. antihero says:

    children, children.

    slackbastard, i agree with your criticism of chunga for his language as well as his scabbing on the boycott, even if the way you express it leaves something to be desired as it does.

    shaun, i think your description of the ‘petty, narrow-minded’ boycott is simple projection – it is the people the boycott was directed against who were petty and narrow-minded. there was a good reason for boycotting the birmingham when it was being managed by a fascist sympathiser and your comments in this thread address this fact nowhere. the ‘freedom’ you defend is the ability to do whatever you feel like regardless of the consequences, whereas true freedom involves respecting the equal freedom of others and demands that you take responsibility for the consequences of your actions. this is especially true where harmful actions such as supporting people who scapegoat people of a different skin colour for the irrationalities of the capitalist system is concerned, even if you only do so passively. at the same time i dislike the way people on this board talk down to you intensely and sympathise with your comments in that respect.

    lumpen, in general i agree with what you’re saying but the up your own arse way you say it is totally unnecessary. anarchism needs your self-righteous attitude like a hole in the head. i’m embarrassed to be on the same side as you.

  20. Lumpen says:

    Meh, as long as you agree, that’s what counts. If I sound patronising to Shaun it’s because he’s acting like a child. Wilful ignorance bugs me.

    These scabs are the ones willing to be associated with racists and nazis, so any negative association is one of their own making, if anything.

    And I don’t think Chunga’s language was a problem. Banal homophobia made funny by his miscalculated attempts at insult. That’s it. It’s really not a sticking point; it has been repeated for the sake of humour.

    I think the situation with these bands was easily resolvable up until the point where some people, supported on their side, made the attempt to pass on @ndy’s details to avowedly violent nazis who have declared their desire to have him killed. That’s a pretty extreme form of censorship, if you ask me.

    From where I’m standing, Antihero, you’re the arsehole for dismissing this and making it an issue of style and delivery and sides that enhance rather than hurt your cred. Fuck these little wankers. It pleases me to see them cry about not getting access to a PA that they don’t deserve. I hope they were humiliated when they were told to go away.

    That said, most people would recognise that the bands who scabbed might not have appreciated the gravity of what they were doing at the time, regret it in hindsight or might wish to distance themselves from the actions of others against the boycott. The solution is pretty simple; say it publicly and we can move on. As has been stated repeatedly, it’s not exactly a burning issue.

  21. shaun boots says:

    I know I said that was my last comment but I really want to try and clarify a couple of things as I fell a lot of what I have said may have been misinterpreted. this is probably my fault as I tend to over simplify things and possibly behave in a somewhat childish manner due to my love of simplicity and my respect for the innocence and freshness of a child’s perspective. I really appreciate the comments of antihero, Äpärä and concerned bystander because I fell they have been really open to an exchange of ideas and they have also helped me to try and think of better ways to explain myself and my position. I think Äpärä possibly summarizes the view of many people who agree with the boycott best in saying:

    Why should we give free speech to the very people whose agenda it is to take it away from us?

    this is a really good point and I used to feel a very similar way myself, it was only after some serious thought on the matter that my opinions started changing.

    what Äpärä is saying (i think) is kinda like, do unto others as they would do unto you, as opposed to the more traditional, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. which is closer to my beliefs. in other words I truly believe that if there is any answer to problems like racism and many others, it is definitely not through aggression as that seems to almost always cause more problems and exacerbate situations.

    I also believe, although I wouldn’t call myself an anarchist, that if there is a path to “the creation of a classless, non-hierarchical society” then it is not a path of aggression, nor is it a path of condescending assumption.

    now before any self righteous punks, anarchists, whatever, go calling me a hippie I happen to be a massive “big balls and the great white idiot” fan, but love lots of different music from all over the spectrum. hopefully this comment will help to clear up any confusion about MY reasons for playing at the birmy (I don’t claim to speak for anybody else) and add a little much needed context to my strange ramblings. thanks guys. latter.

  22. Piltdown says:

    Shaun,

    “big balls and the great white idiot”

    WTF – ROFL.

    You got the chutzpah but not the intellect to use that quote.

    Fuckin Tallywacker.

  23. Lumpen says:

    I read Shaun’s comment three times and I still don’t understand what he’s trying to say. Something about treating others fairly rather than in kind? Maybe? I can’t figure out who it’s directed to either.

    Why should we give free speech to the very people whose agenda it is to take it away from us?

    this is a really good point and I used to feel a very similar way myself, it was only after some serious thought on the matter that my opinions started changing.

    ???

  24. Dr. Cam says:

    Just because they make Ice in a toilet doesn’t mean you’re supposed to smoke it.

  25. a concerned bystander says:

    So I’m a couple of weeks late now, but…

    Lumpen said:

    It’s also worth pointing out that these scab pieces of shit also tried to give Mr Slackbastard’s details out publicly (despite being very wrong about pretty much everything) with the expressed intention of having him beaten or worse.

    My thought is that while violence is always regrettable and I’d agree that this was a massive overreaction, I’d prefer for you to be beaten up than for loophole to be targeted. You may not have stated previously that these bands were neo-nazis or were supporting them perhaps, though you did insinuate it in a post above as I have already pointed out, but you have been generally antagonistic, again as explained above and as is obvious from the even more recent comments. You may feel all safe in your anonymity to act however you damn please, but if loophole cops the shit from your antagonism, then fuck you. Just be polite. Think about the other people in your community.

    And yes, it was not shaun or chunga, but another guy I know in that same scene, who I had a long argumentative conversation with, in which he admitted and boasted about having been the one who with his friends […] attacked loophole and painted swastikas on their window. His attitude: I’m not a neo-nazi, but if that’s what they’re going to call us, that’s what we’ll give them. I’m not supporting these guys, I was pissed off at this dude, but I am just pointing out that your actions have consequences. They may not impact on you, all the more reason for you to be responsible and treat people with some sense of respect regardless of their position as scabs, which as you have now acknowledged, you understand their reasons for being so. And yes it may have been 2008, I can’t remember, and at the time I made sure the loophole crew knew about the reasons for the attack.

    And yes, loophole recently had their windows smashed in. If you were involved with loophole at all you would know about it as they did a big call out for donations to cover the cost of the repairs. I’m not accusing any of these guys of this incident at all, it does seem unlikely that it was politically motivated… just pointing out that loophole has security issues and if there is any way in which you could be contributing to them (through your anonymity and association with the anarchist scene of which loophole, barricade and MARC are three physical symbols) then you should get a life and start acting responsibly. And yes, by that I mean your language. I don’t give a damn if you think you’re a good writer. I haven’t read much of your blog so I’m not going to say. I’d expect that your actual posts are more coherent, well researched and less attacking than your comments. However that is what I am referring to when I speak of your language.

    Your abuse of shaun on the basis that he can’t spell: again condescending as all fuck. Just because you are educated does not mean that shaun does not know how to think and does not hold valid opinions. You may not agree with them, that’s all well and good, but at least engage from a position in which you don’t abuse others for their lack of education. Again as anarchists, is that really useful to our cause?

    As to the whole understanding and responsibility issue, you misunderstand my point. I was suggesting that in understanding where they are coming from, perhaps you could say something along the lines of ‘well i understand where you are coming from, but disagree for these reasons…’ as opposed to ‘you are silly… ignore everything you’ve said… post racist lyrics… talk about other things… make further insults…’ Responding in such a way would not have made you a social worker, it would have made you someone engaging in non-violent communication – a way of resolving conflict and yet still getting your point across. Instead you escalated the situation and created conflict. This is the crux of my issue with you.

    In terms of your responses to me pointing out the ways in which you escalated the shaun comment flame war/whatever, your comments are ridiculous, they continue to be beside the point and escalate the situation. When I point out that shaun never mentioned Gary, you post the lyrics of a song that Gary played. How is that relevant to the point at hand? It isn’t. Its a tactic to sway readers to your perspective as if you’re an anarchist Andrew Bolt, and it’s poorly done if you ask me. Throughout all of the above it should be obvious to readers that you are not at all interested in engaging in any kind of serious conversation about these issues. Only in escalating them further.

    This will be my last post. Go ahead and have the last word on all of this. I think the above comments make the situation fairly obvious to readers.

  26. butcher says:

    @A concerned bystander.

    What the fuck dude? Are you fucking serious? You claim to be an anarchist, yet you are arguing for the violent assault on another anarchist. Fuck off.

    You’re an anarchist that is unconcerned about scabs.
    You’re an anarchist that wishes to use non-violent communication in order to ‘de-escalate’ conflict with fucking nazis and scabs.
    You’re an anarchist that feels it was merely an ‘over-reaction’ to publicly release the (incorrect) name, address and place of employment of another anarchist to nazis. And should that result in a good ol’ bit of a brutal violent assault, it would be preferable to property damage.

    You’re an anarchist who blames @ndy for the actions of other people. Cos “he made me, weally, weally, angwy and called me names” counts as a valid justification for harassing a social space @ndy may or may not be associated with.

    You’re an anarchist who defends the actions of boneheads, scabs, fuckwit racists, homophobes and other complete dickheads.

    You’re an anarchist and I’m the fucking Virgin Mary.

    Go fuck yourself.

  27. Seamus says:

    Agreed, butcher. Anarchy my ass.

    All things considered, the treatment of the scabs was pretty mild. I’m thinking “Blackleg Miner” here…

    So join the union while you may
    Don’t wait ’til your dying day
    It might not be that far away
    You dirty blackleg miner!

    Not that I think some silly little apathetic lefties (I don’t know what this means either) need to be thumped. The boycott worked without that. But when there’s a boycott of a nazi-friendly bar, and you think it’s a big fucking joke, you kind of excuse yourself from the anti-fascist community. Whatever: you have the freedom to be a wanker. But you HAVE excused yourself from the community by violating its norms. Don’t expect anyone to want to hang out with you. Same logic that gets a worker fired for violating OH&S (in a non-profitable way), except that nice “apathetic” people will respect the boss’ right to fire and not a community’s right to exclude people who endanger that community. Apathy is not NEUTRAL, it is tacit support for the status quo. It is siding with the powerful against the oppressed.

    Citizen,

    You have to be the most morally reprehensible person I’ve ever heard call themself an anarchist (and I’ve met some stupid anarchists before). You think a possible physical attack on @ndy is regrettable, but reckon he had it coming for opposing scabs. And you have openly admitted that you know who was responsible for attacks on anarchist social centres and putting up fascist graffiti. And it seems you intend to continue those friendships and protect them. Probably out of respect for their personal opinions…

    The fact is that some opinions, statements, and actions are not “neutral” or limited to individual, private stances. If a person states “I hate niggers,” that person is denying rights, even humanity, to black people. Black people and allies in their struggle have a right to get rid of that person, as a means to protect their own humanity. That includes scabbing on a boycott, defending the rights of neo-nazis, and voicing support for physical assaults on activists.

    You’re a mother-fucking fascist. Get fucked.

  28. @ndy says:
      In the meantime…

    It was a restless transport [at Auschwitz]… Our Polish Jews knew what was up. And so the whole place swarmed with S.S., and Schillinger, seeing what was going on, drew his revolver. But everything would have gone smoothly except that Schillinger had taken a fancy to a certain body–and, indeed, she had a classic figure. That’s what he had come to see the chief about, I suppose. So he walked up to the woman and took her by the hand. But the naked woman bent down suddenly, scooped up a handful of gravel and threw it in his face, and when Schillinger cried out in pain and dropped his revolver, the woman snatched it up and fired several shots into his abdomen. The whole place went wild. The naked crowd turned on us, screaming. The woman fired once again, this time at the chief…

    Schillinger was lying face down, clawing the dirt in pain with his fingers. We lifted him off the ground and carried him–not too gently–to a car. On the way he kept groaning through clenched teeth: “O Gott, mein Gott, was hab’ ich getan, dass ich so lediden muss?”, which means–O God, my God, what have I done to deserve such suffering?

    ~ Tadeusz Borowski, ‘The Death of Schillinger’ (1959)

  29. Lumpen says:

    My thought is that while violence is always regrettable and I’d agree that this was a massive overreaction, I’d prefer for you to be beaten up than for loophole to be targeted.

    Bloody hell. That bodes badly for Loophole more than anything.

  30. Äpärä says:

    Concerned Bystander: I sympathise with some of your post and i believe that butcher and Seamus’ posts are rather harsh seeing as they’re made up mostly of insults however

    “I’d prefer for you to be beaten up than for loophole to be targeted.”

    is out of line and incredibly un-comradely even by non-anarchist standards. Whilst I don’t necessarily agree with everything @ndy posts on his blog, he is still a comrade, a mate and an integral part of the anarchist movement here in Melbourne. It’s regrettable that anarchist institutions are targeted because some people in the movement choose to be more vocal than others, but i don’t see how that justifies your position. If you think the actions of some idiots justifies @ndy being attacked then I think there is something very wrong happening down at Loophole.

  31. Lumpen says:

    @ndy is responsible for his opinions and what he publishes. I believe he is only accountable to freely chosen comrades and, even then, their ability to prevent him from expressing whatever he likes is severely limited. It’s part of the whole anarchy deal. His actions in regard to the former Birmy boycott are supported by his comrades and others, by the way, making AIB’s statement against him a statement against all of us.

    He is not responsible for the actions of others, especially if they were committed by people with specific hostility toward him. To believe otherwise is to invest him with fantastic powers over the minds and limbs of others. In Innocent Bystander’s case, this strange belief would explain the fervour of his opposition.

    …His attitude: I’m not a neo-nazi, but if that’s what they’re going to call us, that’s what we’ll give them. I’m not supporting these guys, I was pissed off at this dude, but I am just pointing out that your actions have consequences [my emphasis]. They may not impact on you, all the more reason for you to be responsible and treat people with some sense of respect regardless of their position as scabs, which as you have now acknowledged, you understand their reasons for being so. And yes it may have been 2008, I can’t remember, and at the time I made sure the loophole crew knew about the reasons for the attack.

    This makes absolutely no sense. If someone calls you a pedophile, you don’t rape a baby to prove them wrong. Frankly, this account of what happened sounds like an outright lie or, at least, a massive embellishment to try to bolster a very poor line of reasoning.

  32. @ndy says:

    Lumpen:

    You are no better than the curious and innocent bystanders that you castigate. Of course I was asking for it, just like that slut in the mini-skirt was, and just like the so-called peace activists were. Throughout all of the above it should be obvious to readers that you are not at all interested in engaging in any kind of serious conversation about these issues. Only in escalating them further.

    Of course, they were asking for it
    Mark Steel
    The Independent
    June 2, 2010

    It’s time the Israeli government’s PR team made the most of its talents, and became available for hire. Then whenever a nutcase marched into a shopping mall in somewhere like Wisconsin and gunned down a selection of passers-by, they could be on hand to tell the world’s press “The gunman regrets the loss of life but did all he could to avoid violence.” Then various governments would issue statements saying “All we know is a man went berserk with an AK 47, and next to him there’s a pile of corpses, so until we know the facts we can’t pass judgement on what took place.”

    To strengthen their case the Israelis have released a photo of the weapons they found on board, (which amount to some knives and tools and wooden sticks) that the naive might think you’d expect to find on any ship, but the more astute will recognise as exactly what you’d carry if you were planning to defeat the Israeli army. It’s an armoury smaller than you’d find in the average toolshed in a garden in Cirencester, which goes to show the Israelis had better destroy Cirencester quickly as an essential act of self-defence.

    It’s a shame they weren’t more imaginative, as they could have said “We also discovered a deadly barometer, a ship’s compass, which could not only be frisbeed at someone’s head but even had markings to help the assailant know which direction he was throwing it, and a set of binoculars that could easily be converted into a ray-gun.”

    That would be as logical as the statement from the Israeli PM’s spokesman – “We made every possible effort to avoid this incident.” Because the one tiny thing they forgot to do to avoid this incident was not send in armed militia from helicopters in the middle of the night and shoot people. I must be a natural at this sort of technique because I often go all day without climbing off a helicopter and shooting people, and I’m not even making every possible effort. Politicians and commentators worldwide repeat a version of this line. They’re aware a nation has sent its militia to confront people carrying provisions for the desperate, in the process shooting several of them dead, and yet they angrily blame the dead ones. One typical headline yesterday read “Activists got what they wanted – confrontation.” It’s an attitude so deranged it deserves to be registered as a psychosis, something like “Reverse Slaughter Victim Confusion Syndrome”.

    Israel and its supporters claim that Viva Palestina, made up of people who collect the donated food, cement and items for providing basic amenities such as toilets, and transport them to Gaza, wanted the violence all along. Because presumably they must have been thinking “Hezbollah couldn’t beat them, but that’s because unlike us they didn’t have a ballcock and several boxes of plum tomatoes”.

    One article told us the flotilla was full of “Thugs spoiling for a confrontation”, and then accused them of being “Less about aid and more about PR. Indeed, on board was Swedish novelist Henning Mankell.” So were they thugs or about PR? Did they have a thugs’ section and a PR quarter, or did they all muck in, the novelist diverting the soldiers with his characterisation while the thugs attacked them with a lethal spirit level?

    But some defenders of Israel are so blind to what happens in front of them there’s nothing at all they wouldn’t jump to defend. Israel could blow up a cats home and within five minutes they’d be yelling “How do we know the cats weren’t smuggling semtex in their fur for Hamas?”

    If this incident had been carried about by Iran, or anyone we were trying to portray as an enemy, so much condemnation would have been spewed out it would have created a vast cloud of outrage that airlines would be unable to fly through.

    But as it’s Israel, most governments offer a few diplomatic words that blame no one, but accept the deaths are “regrettable”. They might as well have picked any random word from the dictionary, so the news would tell us “William Hague described the deaths as ‘hexagonal'”, and a statement from the US senate said “It’s all very confusing. In future let’s hope they make every effort to avoid a similar incident.”

  33. Pingback: Jason Devine (ARA Calgary) : Neo-Nazi Home Invasion | slackbastard

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