[Update : April 2, 2007: Gabriel Kolko, commenting on the state of the State of Israel (‘Israel’s Last Chance’, Counterpunch, March 30, 2007) writes “Some indications of these trends [ie, “profound divisions” in Israeli society] range from the banal to the tragic. In Petah Tikva the abandoned Hashomer Hatzair office has been given to about 150 punks, “anarchists,” who originate in what was the USSR; there is also a club of punks [sic] that calls itself Nazi — “boneheads” in skinhead parlance — and paints swastikas on synagogues. Both dislike the ultra-Orthodox and like the same music.” Well, kinda. ‘Boneheads’ are racist ‘skinheads’; the political status of the punks who congregate at the club is unknown to me; both the ‘anarchist punks’ and the boneheads probably “dislike” the Ultra-Orthodox, albeit for somewhat different reasons; it’s highly unlikely that the punks and the boneheads listen to the same music — at least in the sense that, while boneheads are often happy to listen to bands which despise them (cf. David Innes), few if any punks worthy of the name enjoy listening to White Power muzak.]
Neo-Nazis? In Israel?!? Well, maybe not… In an attempt to account for a number of anti-Semitic incidents in Israel over the last few years, suspicion has centred on Russian immigrants, especially yoof. And it appears that, as in Russia, some at least — flailing around for an oppositional form of identity, and living in a society characterised, like many others, by religious conflict and ethnic discrimination, often hostile or indifferent to their presence — have collapsed into fascism. And despite a long and bloody history of struggle by anarchists against fascism — from Italy, to Spain, to Germany, to contemporary Russia — and a shorter (since the 70s) and less bloody struggle by skinheads against neo-Nazi infiltration of their sub-culture, some still just don’t get it. In Melbourne, this includes the supporters of neo-Nazi venue The Birmingham Hotel, which will host a “punk” fashion show this Friday, starring The Blurters, Charter 77, PBG and Slick 46.
They’re not working class punks; they’re scabs.
“…Don’t listen to all the shit about splits and politics, the Boneheads go on about it because they know how we drove them underground and reclaimed Skinhead culture for true Skinheads. The non-politicals go on [and on and on] about it because it’s easier than taking on the scum. I’ve been a Skinhead since 1969 and I know what it’s meant since day one.” — Roddy Moreno, The Oppressed
We’re not Nazis, we’re punk-anarchists
Moti Katz
Ha’aretz
February 28, 2007The teenagers in Petah Tikva’s Gan Yehonatan club stress that they are not Nazis.
“We’re punks!” they say.
“People think all new immigrants are anti-Semites. That’s not true at all,” one of the teenagers says, referring to anti-Semitic incidents in town, like last year’s desecration of a large synagogue.
“We don’t like the ultra-Orthodox but we wouldn’t paint swastikas on synagogues either,” he says.
Some 150 young immigrants from the former Soviet Union frequent the Gan Yehonatan club in the afternoons. The purpose of the club is to keep the youths from drinking and hanging out in parks.
The boys admit uncomfortably that they are familiar with the Nazi-Russian youth in Petah Tikva.
“There are groups of neo-Nazis – not here at the club, though. They exist in every town in the country,” says one youth.
Some of the youths regard Israelis with anger and distrust. They are a close-knit group, but complain that Israelis treat them with contempt and see them as stereotypes. Most of all, they say they don’t belong. The reports of vandalism and attacks on ultra-Orthodox residents have intensified this feeling.
When asked what they know of Nazi and anti-Semitic groups, they act embarrassed. Gradually, however, they open up and talk about the “Nazi skinheads” and terror they impose on other groups.
‘Good’ and ‘bad’ skinheads [Skinheads vs. Boneheads]
“You must distinguish between two groups of skinheads,” one says. “There are good skinheads and Nazi skinheads, called boneheads.” (Nazi skinheads are often called boneheads by traditionalist skinheads and Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice.)
“The boneheads shave their heads and wear white suspenders with jeans or military trousers, sometimes with a white collar,” one boy says. Most of them are over 18 years old, some even serve in the military, and they advocate typical Nazi ideology, based on hatred of Jews and Israelis, he says.
“A few months ago, the boneheads held a ceremony to mark Hitler’s birthday in one of the cemeteries,” a boy says.
[A few years ago (2002), Melbourne boneheads held a celebration to mark Hitler’s birthday in a Melbourne pub… Can you guess which one? Earlier, in 1990, the bonehead Dane Sweetman celebrated the occasion by murdering fellow bonehead David Noble.]
Irena, 18, from the central region, has spent some time with the Nazi boneheads.
“I was a skingirl – that’s what you call the Nazi skinheads’ girls,” she says.
Irena’s boyfriend was the group leader, dubbed the “Fuhrer.”
“We were a bunch of immigrant Russian boys and girls, and we had a certain dress code. The boys usually shaved their heads and wore military pants.
“On weekends we’d meet in parks, where we’d drink and smoke and listen to Nazi music. Nazi music isn’t Rammstein [a German band that incorporates elements of metal/hard rock, industrial metal and electronic music],” she says with a smile. Some evenings fights would break out between her group and others who met in the parks. Irena’s boyfriend, the Fuhrer, was involved in fighting among the groups.
[Irena the ex-bonehead also features in a previous article by Katz: ‘Israelis run anti-Jewish Web sites’, Ha’aretz, February 25, 2007.]
…There are many shaven heads among the good skinheads [duh!], who wear jeans, sometimes bleach-stained, red suspenders and red laces on their military boots. One boy says that he was beaten up once by the Nazi skinheads for wearing red suspenders. “The red symbolizes Communism to them, and the Communists defeated the Nazis,” he says.
[Er… on the other hand: Red & Anarchist Skinheads // Germany. On fashion: Fire and Flames Riotwear!]
Most of the youths in Gan Yehonatan categorize themselves as punk-anarchists. “We, the punks, usually wear tight black trousers and various Mohawk hair styles,” he says. “We also have metalists, who listen to heavy metal music, wear lots of earrings and rivets, army boots and are into piercing.”
Some of them are convinced that the boneheads desecrated the big synagogue and tried to frame the punks.
After school, in the afternoons, the Gan Yehonatan group walks along the gravel path leading to the club in Petah Tikva. Several girls, some dressed in black, greet each other politely. Boys with thuggish expressions chain smoke and converse among themselves in Russian, dotted with Hebrew phrases.
The club provides the teenagers with activities to help them deal with their difficulties in creative ways. At least seven punk and rock bands have come out of the club, as well as a breakdance group. The club also has a music room, a carpentry workshop and a basketball court.
After the lights go out
Gan Yehonatan opened about three years ago, after a municipal committee headed by Nurit Tibi, director of the Beit Hila educational center, discovered that drinking and violence were prevalent among immigrant CSI youth. The committee decided to open a club in an old rundown building belonging to the Hashomer Hatzair youth movement, opposite the town’s Yad Lebanim park.
…Statistics from the Ministry of Absorption show that more than 37,500 immigrants from former Soviet countries moved to Petah Tikva between January of 1989, just before the collapse of the Soviet Union, and December of 2005 — slightly more than 20 per cent of the city’s current population.
While many of those immigrants settled and thrived, others have had trouble adapting to the culture and learning Hebrew, leaving former professionals unemployed or taking menial jobs to get by, and their children uprooted and confused.
Some of those have ended up at Petah Tikva’s Youth Consultation Centre, an outreach and treatment centre, where criminologist Nurit Tibi says she treats several young Russian-speaking youth who’ve been in trouble with the law for assaulting ultra-Orthodox Jews or throwing stones at synagogues.
“I see what happened in the Great Synagogue as something very extreme and very difficult. But I also see it as part of a wider problem of identity crisis,” she said.
While many of these immigrants qualified to move to Israel because of a Jewish grandparent, after a lifetime in an environment where religion was actively discouraged, they are today either secular Jews or do not consider themselves Jewish at all — leaving the next generation struggling to figure out where they belong in a Jewish state.
With anti-Semitism gaining ground in Russia, Russian-speaking teens here may find the acceptance they seek by imitating what they see on Russian-language websites and videos.
“They copy it from somewhere. And here they don’t belong to anybody,” Ms. Tibi said.
One of her clients — a young man from a broken home, who does not qualify for citizenship because his parents are not themselves Jewish — served eight months in prison for assaulting religious Jews. “But when you meet him, you find a confused adolescent who hasn’t found where he belongs. What is he? Is he a Jew? Is he Christian? Is he Israeli? What is he?
“These symbols are the country, for them. This is the way to fight the government — that’s how they see the State of Israel.”
— From Russia With Hate, Carolynne Wheeler, The Globe and Mail, May 17, 2006
It wasn’t easy to reach the CSI youth, says youth activity coordinator Bella Alexandrov. But gradually they started coming and infused life into the place.
In the late evening hours, the lights go out at Gan Yehonatan. Only two girls remain with Alexandrov to confide their problems. The rest of the group, equipped with cigarettes and booze, drift off into the dark corners of the park.
Alexandrov looks at them sadly as they disappear. She hopes this evening will end without any violent incidents, and that tomorrow they will come back “home.”
“Because this is the only place that could possibly constitute a home for them,” she says.
Sveiks,
from a quiet night in the global burbs far removed from the core areas of northern hemisphere industrial capitalism..
here is a suggestion or two,
why not run a more positive campaign?
List punk and extreme music venues that will not book or host the fash, give the numbers of their promoters, promote those venues. Move the crowd away from the Birmingham by offering better deals, better venues and larger crowds (with erm.. efective security). Reclaim the word chaos.
Create a myspace or similar, list bands who do take a stand against fash venues. Link up with other rad youth movements like Animal Liberation Victoria Youth. Use the communications structure of liberal capitalism to scam their interweb. Create a worldwide movement of bands, promoters and venues who want nothing to do with goosestepping.
Declare economic warfare on naughty venues, drain their lifeblood and popularity and provide alternatives for those bands and punters who may be swayed.
Sveiks
1) Given that there’s only one single pub in Melbourne that will stoop to providing a platform for boneheads to talk shit, I don’t see the point in composing a list of pubs that won’t.
2) A ‘positive’ campaign was initiated last year following the assault @ The Tote. What happened to it is another story.
3) There’s already a global network of bands, clubs, labels, groups, projects and individuals dedicated to keeping boneheads and other racist scum in check.
Boycott the Birmy: http://birmyboycott.wordpress.com
[Huh?!? Someone\’s having trouble with the spam filter I thunk. If so, please try again.]
ok.. testing testing 1 2
righty-o i\’ll try again. you said:
what the gives you the right to call me a fucken scab? i\’m a union member who\’s never crossed a line.
are you trying to compare your misguided campaign to ban the birmy with the struggles of the MUA?
by the way, last year i called a boycott on being a fuckwit. since then you have continued to be a fuckwit, so you are a scab.
ho ho ho, red red red.
i *assume* the right — same as anyone else does. it’s not something that’s handed down in a court of law ffs.
yr a member of a union? good. you’ve never xed a picket? good. still, yr aware of the boycott, obviously — & you’ve chosen to ignore it.
that’s called scabbing in my book.
& it’s got fuck-all to do with the mua… at least, as far as i can tell. i mean, ‘less yr referring to ‘community pickets’ in some way or something. in which case, take it up with union solidarity: they need all the support they can get. (yr aware of the tories plans to change the ‘trade practices act’ to make campaigns like ‘boycotting the birmy’ unlawful, & to impose fines & jail sentences, yeah? …ever wondered why?)
you reckon the campaign is misguided?
why?
fuckwit or not, it’s a simple fucking q. & if you can’t answer it, yr the fuckwit.
you have the right to call my band a punk fashion show. not sure what it means, but thats your opinion. i dont care if its right or wrong.
you do not have the right to call me a scab. thats a slanderous accusation. any union member will tell you that.
the mua debacle was a clear cut example of scabs. i dont understand how playing at the birmingham (and thus going against your boycott, which i never agreed with) can be realisticly compared to training up overseas and coming in to steal someones job.
boycotting a pub is mis-guided because you are wasting your time. you will achieve nothing. people that have gone there for years and are happy with the place will resent you telling them what to do. if i go there today, there will be the same people that were there before your boycott started. why dont you book the function room and have your own stooge festival there.
interesting to see the photo in the melbourne times of the protest outside the pub, with people wearing the t-shirts/patches of bands that still play at the pub.
red,
1) on punk as fashion:
i call yr band (charter 77) — & all others who play the birmy since the b&h gig last sept — “fashion victims” ‘cos in practice yr punk/politix are skin-deep. in other words, talk/sing/shout about ‘punk’ and ‘the working class’ all you want: people with even half-a-brain understand that it’s what you DO, not the clothes you wear or the cut of yr hair, that really let’s people know *where you stand*. & if, despite others’ call for a simple act of solidarity — ie, don’t play @ the birmy — you’d prefer to stand in solidarity with gary & his venue, you’ll be judged accordingly.
punk is as punk does.
so, say ‘hello’ to yr new ‘mates’:
===
“It’s amazing how these cowardly dirtbags can even stand up without a spine. Gutless fags. The gig was brilliant: great bands, great people and a good time was had by all. UP YOURS FAG ANTI-RACIST VERMIN! GOD FORGIVES, HAMMERS DON’T!” — Hammerskin38 (Southern Cross Hammerskins)
===
2) on scabs & scabbing:
any union member worth their salt not only knows what a scab is & why it’s an insult, they also know what a boycott is, what being sent to coventry means, why fascism & neo-nazism is anti-union & anti-working class, & why you shouldn’t lend it yr support… at the risk of being called a scab (or worse).
3) on boycotts:
===
“Captain Charles Boycott was a former English army officer who served as the agent for an absentee landlord in Ireland in the second half of the 19th century. He was very harsh, refusing to lower rents in hard times and dispossessing tenant farmers who couldn’t pay. In 1880 the tenants, encouraged by the Irish Land League, retaliated: they organized a campaign to isolate Captain Boycott, encouraging the local people to refuse to have any dealings with him or his family. Charles Parnell of the Irish Land League said that those who refused to lower rents or who took the farms of people who had been evicted should be treated like “the lepers of old.” Boycott and his family found themselves without servants or farmhands and without mail delivery or service in stores. Their own crops failed, and they eventually fled back to England.”
& i’m sure that those who were stoopid enuff to scab on the original ‘boycott’ got called all sorts of names…
===
4) on the mua dispute:
you obviously missed something. one of the things that made the mua dispute (1998) unusual was precisely that it involved a COMMUNITY PICKET. in other words, in order to circumvent laws making industrial/union-organised pickets unlawful — & those engaged in it subject to massive fines if found ‘guilty’ of defending their wages and conditions by preventing scabs from entering their workplace — the unions called it something else.
tom bramble, *war on the waterfront*, brisbane defend our unions committee, 1998:
===
“…The “community assembly” marshalled at East Swanson dock was the most impressive feature of the entire campaign. The Melbourne picketers were determined no trucks would pass. Railway tracks were laid across the road and welded together as a “community arts project”. Concrete blocks were erected on the entrance road to East Swanson. A trailer was overturned to block traffic. Transport Workers Union members (TWU) planned to block Footscray Road with their trucks if any non-union truck driver tried to force entry.
Organisation at East Swanson quickly sprang into place to co-ordinate the work of thousands of MUA supporters. Each union was rostered to provide picketers for particular time-slots. A telephone tree of thousands was established to alert supporters when the police made any move. At any one time several hundred workers and supporters would be at the Melbourne picket line, bringing food, drink, ideas, laughter, song, and whatever skills they had. The festive atmosphere, the solidarity and sense of purpose struck everyone who turned up at the picket…”
http://www.takver.com/wharfie/wotw.htm
call it what you want, red, call it what you want:
i call it W O R K I N G | C L A S S | S O L I D A R I T Y.
===
5) on the birmy boycott:
achieve nothing eh?
that’s plainly wrong.
b/w 100–150 punx, skins ‘n’ herberts attended a demo outside the pub. it’s been reported in the media. the campaign’s had the support of anarchists, socialists, punx, skins, metalheads, women’s grps, jewish grps, fitzroy & collingwood residents, local kooris, unionists, trades hall, & more besides.
shit on it all you want: fact is, word’s getting ’round.
& i honestly don’t give a fuck about people who still drink there. they, like gary, simply don’t fucking care that ‘their’ pub is used as a venue by neo-nazis, or that a local black woman was assaulted on the night of the gig.
fuck ’em. the point is not to prise locals off their well-worn seats, but to reduce the pub’s income by encouraging others not to patronise it. in other words, to make the pub owners — & by extension, all pub-owners — think twice about holding neo-nazi gigs in future, and to let those who do know that they’ll be financially penalised as a result.
in a perfectly legal & non-violent manner.
unfortunately, you seem to assume that most people are apathetic fools when it comes to the presence of swastika-waving dickheads in local pubs & communitites.
yr wrong.
fact is, most people hate their fucking guts: which is why they tried to organise their little gig in secret, & why gary lied about it even happening.
as for those at the demo wearing yrs & others’ tees & patches: that’s YOUR PROBLEM, not mine.
& do you REALLY think this is OVER?
not by a long bloody shot…
THAT’S “…swastika-waving dickheads in local pubs & COMMUNITIES!”
back again:
you then wrote about your definition of working class solidarity with a couple of examples.
what i cant understand is how you can say that your call for so-called solidarity \”dont play @ the birmy\”… in anyway compares to the mua dispute. (the captain boycott example is a bit before my time. the last captain boycott i remember played cricket for england.)
whether people play/drink/go to the birmy is of fuck all interest to anyone except your rat-bag left-wing knitting circle. id be surprised if any bloke at my work could point out the birmy in the melways, let alone tell me why you think he shouldnt go there. YOUR call for solidarity is a call for solidarity among far left people similar to yourself. NOT working class solidarity.
good for you. ive seen all those types of people inside the pub having a good time. im boycotting sandi thorn records at the moment. its quite easy for me, cos i never had any intention of buying any in the first place.
if you could persuade people that actually drink at the pub not to go there, you might have more success.
i dont give a fuck who wears my shirts. i didnt see any in the photo but. the point was that your supporters seem to be a bit confused. on one hand theyre out the front protesting, on the other hand theyre back watching the bands a few weeks later.
do tell.
and finally you and me both know im not hammerskin material.
hey red,
yeah, yr back.
super.
if you don’t understand the comparison b/w the community picket @ the mua dispute and the call for a community boycott of the birmy, maybe it’s ‘cos yr thick.
(just a suggestion.)
anyways, i was merely responding to yr comment that i was “trying to compare [the] misguided campaign to [boycott] the birmy with the struggles of the MUA”; which, as a matter of fact, i wasn’t. in fact, if you read the post to which yr comment was presumably meant to be a reply — s l o w l y, perhaps — you’ll find no ref to the mua.
funny that eh?
in a subsequent reply, i tried to figure out what you were trying to say by writing a little bit about that dispute — y’know, like, what actually *happened* — but yr objection, such as it is, seems to basically boil down to yr unappreciation at being called a scab.
which is not an atypical reaction.
for a scab.
(just an observation.)
and, like, not all unionists are thick. that’s why they recognise that, in a period marked by declining union memberships, a hostile legal and political environment — which amounts, under hoWARd, to the criminalisation of workers’ struggles, not only for improved wages and conditions, but even the mere ‘right’ to some form of political representation in the workplace — securing the support of non-unionised workers and the public at large is one key means of securing their own survival.
the mua dispute was paradigmatic in that respect, and has been recognised as such.
for example:
===
“Union Solidarity leader Dave Kerin said he believed the new laws [ie, costello’s proposal to strengthen the secondary boycott provisions in the Trade Practices Act] were aimed squarely at his group. Union Solidarity has exploited a loophole that enables community groups to mount a picket line when a union has been ordered by the Federal Court to stop industrial action.
“I’d say for sure (it’s aimed at us)”, he said. “We had over 30 picket lines last year. We didn’t lose any.”
Mr Kerin said his members would ignore any new laws and were prepared to go to jail.
“We don’t care about fines or legal processes they want to use against us”, he said.
“They want us, they’ve got to come for the body and they’re welcome to do that if they want to take Australia in that direction. I’m not going to be in a situation where my two grandsons are born into a country with less rights than I was born into. That’s not going to happen.”
===
as for captain boycott — the english landlord, not the cricketer, smartypants — well, y’see, there’s this funny thing called history.
some people claim you can even learn from it.
and believe it or not, once upon a time there was thing what happened called wwii.
aussies fought in it and everything!
in fact, according to the canberra war memorial site, 933,000 aussies enlisted, and 575,799 were sent overseas!
strewth!
that’s a lot eh?
further, there were 19,235 battle-related deaths as a result of wwii, 20,194 non-battle-related deaths, 23,477 aussies were wounded in battle, 28,756 taken prisoner, and of these, 8,031 died.
and hey, do you one of the enemies aussies were fighting?
the nazis!
‘strue!
and hey, blood & honour are… nazis too!
neo-nazis!
shit eh?
and guess which pub this upstanding-and-very-short-haired mob who claim allegiance to mr. hitler have chosen to meet at and to commemorate, not only ian stuart’s death, but good ol’ uncle adolf’s birthday?
the birmingham!
matter of fact, even the mua — yeah, even the mua red! — hates neo-nazi scum like b&h:
===
‘NAZI Encounter’
SYDNEY: WHEN the Branch got a call to bolster defences for an expected onslaught by Neo-Nazis on the CFMEU on February 19 [2005], they were quick to respond.
Assistant Secretaries Warren Smith and Paul Garrett rallied troops and helped confront the Patriotic Youth League demonstrating outside the CFMEU’s offices.
…
“The far right have regrouped and the general shift to the right in the community arising out of the last election has no doubt buoyed their enthusiasm for action,” said Warren Smith. “It was pleasing to see that upon being greeted by a group of unionists and left-wingers in Hyde Park the fascists went running.”
The Neo-Nazis re-grouped outside the CFMEU building where their numbers dwindled to four. They were protected by about 30 police as the group of unionists and anti-fascist demonstrators protested their racist and intolerant views.
THE BRANCH IS CALLING FOR VIGILANCE IN COMBATING THE EXTREME RIGHT.
http://www.mua.org.au/journal/marapr_2005/portcall.html
===
ah well. lucky for you the cfmeu and mua are just a “rat-bag left-wing knitting circle” eh blockhead?
honestly mate, you’ve got no bloody idea have you?
get a clue:
===
‘Dave Kerin, convener of Union Solidarity in Victoria, told GLW that the network of affiliated community and welfare organisations and unions “have declared that we are not prepared to live next door to workplaces where Howard’s IR laws are being used against democratic organisations such as unions”. *The aim is to build a people’s movement to beat back attacks on workers, unions and communities.*
“We get involved and provide another vehicle for workers involved in a dispute to continue the struggle. The employers and government can use other laws against us, but not the current Workplace Relations Act”, Kerin said.
Union Solidarity has been involved with a range of disputes across Victoria since March, many of which have ended in victories for the workers. Kerin feels that since Work Choices became law, unions and the community will have to adopt campaigning strategies similar to those of the 1998 Maritime Union of Australia dispute; in other words, more community assemblies.
Kerin said that Union Solidarity was mobilising people from many occupational areas. “People are coming out [to local pickets] near where they live, not where they work. They are coming out regardless of which award or enterprise bargain they’re covered by. Retired workers and younger workers, who in some cases aren’t even in a union, are joining in.”
People are so keen to get involved, Kerin said, Union Solidarity is having trouble “keeping up with the demand”. “People do want to have a go, and with every passing dispute, it shows that the strategy does work, prompting more people to want to have a go.”
Kerin said it was critical that workers retain control of their own disputes. “We’ve made it clear from the start that the community organisations affiliated to Union Solidarity determine what gets done in their own area, and the workers who ask for assistance from their communities are in turn in control of the dispute. They will determine if we are asked to assist, and they will determine when we are to leave.”’
graham matthews, ‘work choices: community power defends unions’, GLW, November 10, 2006
===
and, of course, union power defends communities.
in other words, ‘union issues’ aren’t confined to the workplace, red.
they involve the community.
the best, most militant unions in australia have always acted on the basis of this recognition, and always will. the presence of neo-nazis in fitzroy, and the consequent assault upon a lone woman by a group of the scum who attended the gig IS A UNION AND A WORKING CLASS ISSUE.
piss and moan all you like about poor old gary, his precious pub, and yr precious venue.
( read jason bastard’s (and other’s) thoughts on the issue of the birmy: http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=404 )
finally, i don’t give a fuck who wears your shirts either: i give a fuck what people DO. but in the end, i’m only responsible for MY actions; as you are for yrs.
and you’ve made it perfectly clear what side yr on.
and for that, at least, i thank you.
ok i apologise. im not good at writing stuff. maybe i am thick. i cant put into words what im thinking. ill try again though.
the federal government wants to destroy unions. yes?
one pub lets a group (which you dont like) use their function room. yes?
the point im trying to make is one of these is bigger than the other. i dont understand how you can say that these two are of equal importance.
workers rights. job security. pay and conditions. health and safety. super. award rates, penalty rates. allowances. RDOs, sick days. holidays. help with the kids school books, advice on money. legal advice, home loans, credit unions, unfair dismissal, insurance, compo, etc etc etc. put in anything i left out.
the pub let some-one use their function room.
you dont like this group. yes?
deal with the group you dont like, not the pub. or anyone that goes to the pub.
you dont like b&h? take it up with them.
ill write this in capitals so it gets through IM NOT ON ANYONES SIDE. the reason im arguing with you is because you called me a scab. which im not. if you have a problem with the far right, take it up with them.
as for the war, it was the japs that were planning on taking us over. and if it wasnt for them not realising we had fuck all defences at the time, they would of done it. ive talked to some of the brave men that defended darwin with the little resources they were given. today i have family currently enlisted in the forces. dont patronise me about the fucken war.
the way i see it, no man should raise his hand to a woman. if you know who assaulted the poor woman, DO something about it. take the law into your own hands. teach a lesson.
first, dont put words in my mouth. you and your far left friends are the knitting circle. i talk to people in both the cfmeu and the mua. none of them care about the birmingham.
secondly, so which are you a member of? cfmeu or mua? im betting on neither. which union are you a member of?
Hey Red (and @ndy),
Most scabs will always say that they did it because they wanted to feed their family, wanted to play a gig or whatever – never because they self-identified as a scab. Its not sincerity or desire that defines the scab, but their actions.
Take the Birmy: inviting Nazis into the area makes it less safe for people like me. Your actions and your words undermine the campaign to stop giving these fascist pieces of shit a place where they feel welcome to throw their ridiculous salutes (and worse).
You dont see it as scabbing because that doesnt affect you directly. Congratulations: youre too comfortable and shortsighted to show solidarity with anyone who isnt like you. What sets you apart from other boring and lazy people is the fact that youre trying to trivialise support for Nazi activities because it is convenient for you. Even Gary has the sense to show some shame, if only through his denials. Youre in the unfortunate position of being the only person silly enough to try and justify this position publicly.
Its almost funny that you see yourself as detached because you dont have the imagination to see what life might be like outside of the master race – or the courage to do something about it if you do.
If you dont like being called a scab because a) you dont support the campaign and b) you have the luxury of remaining \”neutral\” in the face of fascism, maybe you can suggest another name for a parasite that sucks on a leech that makes a living off pieces of shit.
my belated two cents
thought experiment:
1) if gary claims to be indifferent or doesn\’t discriminate against any group who needs to use his function room — after all he is running a business — would he accept money from the north american man-boy love association (nambla)? if not, why not?
2) let\’s say that gary has nambla meetings and conferences at his pub. should he be held accountable for allowing them into his pub on one or two occasions? if not, why not?
3) now let\’s say that after a nambla fundraiser (gary glitter performed on the night), several drunken nambla members had managed to corner a young boy off the premises and verbally harassed him. given that it was only a minor incident and none of the punters were assaulted, should gary be accused of endangering the life of a child for granting nambla permission to host a gig on his commercial premises? if not, why not? note: the child did not initiate the conflict.
4) who is holding a gun to gary’s head?
5) should non-paedophiles drinking at his pub, whether nambla are present or not, be accused of scabbing, fence-sitting or labelled as nambla sympathizers for neither boycotting nor actively protesting against gary or nambla? if not, why not?
6) if the birmingham punters, including those proud and as tough as nails workin’ class birmy bands, claim to be indifferent, apolitical/neutral or just want to have a good time with their mates after a bloody tough week at work, would they enjoy drinkin’ their hard earned beers and havin’ a laugh in the same room as the nambla members? if not, why not? note: the nambla blokes are also havin\’ a few hard earned drinks and minding their own business.
7) concerning the issue of consensus-approved social/cultural identity, if we agree that irish themed pubs cater to many pseudo-ethnics, such as individuals trying to be irish/celtic by wearing green and drinking pints of guinness on st. paddy\’s day, then is it fair to say that the birmingham is a british working class punk/oi skinhead themed pub, which appeals to many individuals desiring to be working class punks/oi skinheads, that enjoy sporting the appropriate english punk/oi fashion (ie, union jack patches) of a by-gone era, and at times choosing to adopt an english working class accent and slang, to gain acceptance/respect from their peer group? if not, why not? note: are these people any different to members of a dungeons and dragons role-playing society?
furthermore, these questions are based upon the premise that both nambla and blood and honour share a common belief: the right to freedom of speech.
note: as for those who despise being wrongly labelled, either by ignorant leftwing rat-bags or by the mainstream media, if you call an anarchist a communist, would you call an aussie a kiwi?
\’There are no propositions of ethics.\’ — Wittgenstein
Rojo,
More or less.
No.
It’s not that simple.
Yes, Gary @ ‘The Birmy’ is the person responsible for allowing Blood & Honour Australia *and* another group, the Southern Cross Hammerskins, to use the function room at his pub on September 23rd, 2006, in order to hold a gig — complete with swastika flags and, like really bad vibes, man — to commemorate the death in 1993 of Ian Stuart Donaldson, the founder of Blood & Honour.
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=405
As you are no doubt well aware, this is not the first time Gary has collaborated with local neo-Nazis.
In 2004, B&H Australia and the SCHS also commemorated ISD @ The Birmy. In 2002, B&H Australia and the SCHS celebrated Adolf Hitler’s birthday (April 20, 1889) @ The Birmy, one of @ least two gigs held there by local neo-Nazis. Gary also allowed local neo-Nazis to hold meetings at the pub.
At that time, your band, Charter 77, was asked for your support in a boycott of the pub. Then as now, your band refused.
As for my not liking B&H and the SCHS, yes of course. But believe it or not — you seem somewhat skeptical — neither do a great number of others.
OK, I will: opposition to fascism.
Trade union opposition to fascism has a long history in Australia, extending back to the 1920s. For example, in the 1930s, the wharfies’ union actually sent some of its members to fight Franco in Spain. It’s also notorious for placing a black-ban on the export of pig-iron to Japan prior to WWII.
Nevertheless, you seem to have some difficulty in understanding the relationship between opposition to fascism and support for workers’ rights, so I’ll elaborate by reference to B&H Australia’s and the SCHS’s ideological forebears: the Nazi Party.
At the Nuremburg Trials in 1945, the chief US prosecutor, Robert Jackson, provided an outline of the Nazi road to power. The text below is from his opening address:
===
“The Nazi conspiracy, as we shall show, always contemplated not merely overcoming current opposition but exterminating elements which could not be reconciled with its philosophy of the state. It not only sought to establish the Nazi “new order” but to secure its sway, as Hitler predicted, “for a thousand years.” Nazis were never in doubt or disagreement as to what these dissident elements were. They were concisely described by one of them, Col. General von Fritsch, on December 11, 1938, in these words:
“Shortly after the first war I came to the conclusion that we should have to be victorious in three battles if Germany were to become powerful again:
1. The battle against the working class[.] Hitler has won this.
2. Against the Catholic Church, perhaps better expressed against Ultramontanism [essentially, global power exercised by the Pope and the Vatican].
3. Against the Jews.” (1947-PS).
The warfare against these elements was continuous. The battle in Germany was but a practice skirmish for the worldwide drive against them. We have in point of geography and of time two groups of crimes against humanity — one within Germany before and during the war, the other in occupied territory during the war. But the two are not separated in Nazi planning. They are a continuous unfolding of the Nazi plan to exterminate peoples and institutions which might serve as a focus or instrument for overturning their “new world order” at any time. We consider these Crimes against Humanity in this address as manifestations of the one Nazi plan and discuss them according to General von Fritch’s classification.
1. The Battle Against the Working Class
When Hitler came to power, there were in Germany three groups of trade unions. The General German Trade Union Confederation (ADGB) with twenty-eight affiliated unions, and the General Independent Employees Confederation (AFA) with thirteen federated unions together numbered more than 4,500,000 members. The Christian Trade Union had over 1,250,000 members.
The working people of Germany, like the working people of other nations, had little to gain personally by war. While labor is usually brought around to the support of the nation at war, labor by and large is a pacific, though by no means a pacifist force in the world. The working people of Germany had not forgotten in 1933 how heavy the yoke of the war lord can be. It was the workingmen who had joined the sailors and soldiers in the revolt of 1918 to end the First World War. The Nazis had neither forgiven nor forgotten. The Nazi program required that this part of the German population not only be stripped of power to resist diversion of its scanty comforts to armament, but also be wheedled or whipped into new and unheard of sacrifices as part of the Nazi war preparation. Labor must be cowed, and that meant its organizations and means of cohesion and defense must be destroyed.
The purpose to regiment labor for the Nazi Party was avowed by Ley in a speech to workers on 2 May 1933, as follows:
“You may say what else do you want, you have the absolute power. True we have the power, but we do not have the whole people, we do not have you workers 100%, and it is you whom we want; we will not let you be until you stand with us in complete, genuine acknowledgment.” (614-PS).
The first Nazi attack was upon the two larger unions. On April 21, 1933 an order not even in the name of the Government, but of the Nazi Party was issued by the conspirator Robert Ley as “Chief of Staff of the political organization of the NSDAP,” applicable to the Trade Union Confederation and the Independent Employees Confederation. It directed seizure of their properties and arrest of their principal leaders. The party order directed party organs which we here denounce as criminal associations, the SA and SS “to be employed for the occupation of the trade union properties, and for the taking into custody of personalities who come into question.” And it directed the taking into “protective custody” of all chairmen and district secretaries of such unions and branch directors of the labor bank (392-PS).
These orders were carried out on May 2, 1933. All funds of the labor unions, including pension and benefit funds, were seized. Union leaders were sent to concentration camps. A few days later, on May 10, 1933, Hitler appointed Ley leader of the German Labor Front (DEUTSCHE ARBEITSFRONT), which succeeded to the confiscated union funds. The German Labor Front, a Nazi controlled labor bureau, was set up under Ley to teach the Nazi philosophy to German workers and to weed out from industrial employment all who were backward in their lessons (1940-PS). “Factory Troops” were organized as an “ideological shock squad within the factory” (1817-PS). The Party order provided that “outside of the German Labor Front, no other organization (whether of workers or of employees) is to exist.” On June 24, 1933 the remaining Christian Trade Unions were seized pursuant to an order of the Nazi Party signed by Ley.
On May 19, 1933, this time by government decree, it was provided that “trustees” of labor, appointed by Hitler, should regulate the conditions of all labor contracts, replacing the former process of collective bargaining (405- PS). On January 20, 1934 a decree “regulating national labor” introduced the fuehrer-principle into industrial relations. It provided that the owners of enterprises should be the “fuehrers” and the workers should be the followers. The enterpriser-fuehrers should “make decisions for employees and laborers in all matters concerning the enterprise” (1861- PS). It was by such bait that the great German industrialists were induced to support the Nazi cause, to their own ultimate ruin.
Not only did the Nazis dominate and regiment German labor, but they forced the youth into the ranks of the laboring people they had thus led into chains. Under a compulsory labor service decree on June 26, 1935, young men and women between the ages of 18 and 25 were conscripted for labor (see 1654-PS). Thus was the purpose to subjugate German labor accomplished. In the words of Ley, this accomplishment consisted “in eliminating the association character of the trade union and employees’ associations, and in its place we have substituted the conception ’soldiers of work’.” The productive manpower of the German nation was in Nazi control. By these steps the defendants won the battle to liquidate labor unions as potential opposition and were enabled to impose upon the working class the burdens of preparing for aggressive warfare.
Robert Ley, the field marshal of the battle against labor, answered our indictment with suicide. Apparently he knew no better answer.”
===
Then as now, anarchists fought fascism:
===
“In Germany the anarchist-syndicalist FAUD (Free Union of German Workers) had decided in 1932 to go underground once Hitler came to power and to work towards a general strike. This proved impossible, the FAUD was far too small to do so on its own and of course once Hitler came to power its numbers were further decimated as many members were either arrested or forced to flee into exile. However with the help of Dutch anarchists they did succeed in setting up a FAUD secretariat in exile in Amsterdam.
Inside Germany FAUD members like labourer Franz Bunget and unemployed steelworker Julius Nolden attempted to continue operating underground. Both were to be arrested by the Gestapo. However with others they succeeded in getting an underground network going that smuggled people out of Germany and smuggled anti-Nazi pamphlets in, often with strange titles to mislead the fascist authorities.
Court records show that one pamphlet went under the title of ‘Eat German fruit and stay healthy’ and became “so popular among miners that they used to greet each other with: ‘Have you eaten German fruit as well?’” The outbreak of the Spanish Revolution in 1936 saw an underground network that raised money for the Spanish anarchists and their fight against fascism and recruited technicians to go to Spain and provide needed expertise.
In December of 1936 however the Gestapo managed to discover the first of these groups and in raids then and in 1937 arrested 89 male and female members of this anarchist underground. In early 1938 these comrades were charged with “preparing acts of high treason”. All but six were convicted.
Julius Nolden was ‘lucky’ and spent the next 8 years in Luttringhausen prison until the arrival of the ‘allies’ in April of 1945. Others were not so ‘lucky’ and were murdered in prison. Lathe operator, Emil Mahnert was thrown out of a window, bricklayer, Wilhelm Schmitz, died in “unexplained circumstances”, Ernst Holtznagel was sent to a military punishment battalion where he died, Michael Delissen was beaten to death by the Gestapo in December 1936 and Anton Rosinke was murdered in February 1937.”
===
The fight against HoWARd’s IR laws and the campaign to boycott The Birmy are not ‘equivalent’ struggles, and I’ve never claimed as such, contrary to your assertion. For example, one is really really really simple and really really really easy: don’t drink or play @ The Birmy.
Simple.
Easy.
Except, it seems, for you, your band, The Assailants, The Blurters, Bulldog Spirit, Distorted Truth, Marching Orders, PBG, Slick 46, Standard Union and The Worst.
Why, I’m not exactly sure. Aside from objecting to the mild inconvenience of temporarily losing a venue (this in a town with no shortage of live venues), I suspect that the bands in question and their members have other, undisclosed commitments to The Birmy, B&H, the SCHS, and various other unaffiliated boneheads and right-wing nationalists. For example, one might ask why Fiona Walsh of Deadset Music attended the ISD gig, or why Bulldog Spirit — disingenuous protestations from Doug Smith notwithstanding — played with Bail Up! at a gig @ The Birmy in 2002. In the absence of such commitments, it appears that the most likely explanation is that the persons concerned simply don’t care.
Not very punk, not very ‘union’, not very ‘working class’.
And not very ‘smart’ if you ask me.
Don’t come the raw prawn with me Red.
As you well know, the gig last September was meant to be ‘secret’ — ie, the location undisclosed to all but those already initiated into the bonehead cult. This is partly why Gary — despite ample evidence to the contrary — lied when asked if the gig had occurred at his premises. And obviously, if Gary had said ‘no’ rather than ‘yes’ to B&H and the SCHS, the gig would not have taken place, and possibly been forced to return to its previous location (@ The Jam Tin in Cheltenham).
As for my activities in opposition to B&H or the SCHS, I’m obviously not going to disclose here the precise nature of what it is I and others know and do inre to such groups, but suffice it to say that it’s a bit rich for you to complain about things about which you obviously know nothing, and about which you manifestly couldn’t care less. In any case, exposing The Birmy as a venue for these groups is already a form of ‘taking action’.
But I can’t do it alone.
I think you’re simply embarrassed at being asked — again — to walk the talk, and failing — again — to do so; and no amount of criticism of myself for failing to do enough to oppose B&H or the SCHS will obscure the simple fact that, when asked for a simple (non-)act of solidarity, you refuse.
See above.
And actions speak louder than words.
I’m not. You’re simply assuming that it’s not possible for me to know a great deal more about Australian history than you do; as well as be able to draw much more reasonable conclusions on that basis.
So.
A few basic facts:
During WWII, Imperialist Japan and Nazi Germany were allies. They, together with Fascist Italy, were known as the “Axis Powers”, signing a formal treaty ratifying their status as such on September 27, 1940 in Berlin, Germany. Further, Australians did not only fight, against the Japanese, in Darwin; they fought in a number of theatres, in campaigns against Germany and Italy in Europe, the Mediterranean and North Africa, as well as against Japan in south-east Asia and other parts of the Pacific.
As far as I can tell, the fact that you’ve spoken to some Australian soldiers who survived the Japanese bombing of Darwin in March 1942, or the fact that some members of your family are currently enlisted in the armed forces, has absolutely no relevance to the subject of discussion, which is to do with the use by neo-Nazis of a pub in Melbourne, and your band’s decision to continue to play at this pub in opposition to, if not in ignorance of, the call for a boycott.
While I’m glad to hear that you don’t think men should bash women — I never assumed otherwise — that statement is again, as far as I can tell, irrelevant. I don’t know the identities of the men who assaulted the woman in question. What I DO know is the following:
===
‘Victim of white supremacist abuse returns to join protest chorus’
Marika Dobbin
The Melbourne Times
October 18, 2006
A LOCAL woman who was intimidated and racially abused by a group of men last month will attend a protest against neo-Nazism outside a Fitzroy pub.
A coalition of local groups is organising the “peace movement” in response to a neo-Nazi concert at the Birmingham Hotel on Saturday, September 23, held to commemorate the death of British white supremacist Ian Stuart.
Blondien (not her real name) says she was walking alone to her car on Johnston Street the same night when she was surrounded by about seven men. She says the men screamed abuse at her, calling her a black c..t and forcing her to repeat the insults.
“It’s disgusting that people would single out one person and you have to say stuff about your race to get out of it,” Blondien said.
Music is planned for the protest on Saturday, October 28, at 1pm outside the Birmingham.
Hotel co-owner Gary (who wouldn’t give his surname) said: “I’m not getting involved in someone else’s bullshit.”
===
I also know that the woman in question attended the protest, supports the boycott, and would also presumably be aware of your band’s decision not to. If you want to show support, maybe you’ll reconsider your scabbing? Otherwise, please don’t pretend that you care: it’s insulting.
An injury to one is an injury to all.
United we stand, divided we fall.
I’m not putting in words in your mouth. You characterised those who support a boycott of the pub as being a “rat-bag left-wing knitting circle”. This is incorrect insofar as it is supported by some, not all, members of the CFMEU (and according to you, members of the CFMEU aren’t ratbags, left-wing, or belong to knitting circles).
As for the MUA, I would’ve assumed that, given its other recent expression of opposition to the Patriotic Youth League, some within it might support the boycott too. I don’t know. But I will contact them and ask them for their support. (I do know that some at least are aware of The Birmy’s support for neo-Nazi groups.)
You may also like to consider the possibility that a) the people you have spoken to do not necessarily represent the views of all other members in the CFMEU and MUA — the CFMEU has in excess of 120,000 members nationally, and the MUA approximately 10,000 — and b) there is likely to be a difference of opinion within its membership with regards the advisability and utility of a boycott. That said, if there are any members of either union who are willing to go on the public record as being in opposition to the boycott, please feel free to direct them to this discussion.
I’m a shop steward with the ASVU: the Amalgamated Shoplifters’ & Vandals’ Union.
…and that’s “(1861-PS)” not “(1861- PS)” and “i’m betting on neither” not “im betting on neither”.
Otherwise, purrfect.
(And thanks also to Lumpen and Spandex!)
PS.
‘Aquila_Audax’ on Stormfront, September 28, 2006:
“However, Melbourne Nationalists [and punks like red] may be called on to defend your venue, now known as the Birmingham Hotel. At the FDB and other gay/communist internet gloryholes such as ‘slackbastard’, they are rallying for the local “community” (faggots, ethnics and communists) to boycott the Hotel and basically shut it down if [sic] they do not ban [neo-Nazi] gigs there in the future.
The story has been run in the Melbourne Times. Planned action includes, yes a picket by rent-a-crowd trade union bludgers, and a local Yarra Councillor Stephen Jolly is on the warpath against the Birmingham Hotel.
All those who attended the gig might want to plan a counter protest when the [sexy] filth plan direct action.”
Ho ho ho.
As it happens, the Very Gay and Very Reverend Patrick O’Sullivan was spotted skulking, and there was a handful of Gary’s cronies @ the bar, but no ‘counter-protest’ to what wasn’t ‘direct action’ but merely public protest (a month later on October 28).
Nevertheless, Eddie the Eagle’s criticisms seem like they’ve formed the basis for red’s; what with all the talk of faggots, knitting circles, ratbags, communists and trade union bludgers.
On the same thread, ‘Quejumpingafghan’ — btw, it’s “queue”, boofhead: learn how to write proper English — chimes in with a ref to the Brisbane mob’s attempt to hold mtgs @ the Bandidos clubhaus:
“Well even if they do kick up a stink it isn’t going to stop certain orgs from finding other venues for the future. Judging from what the Brisbane guys have got access to from their BBQ thread, the homosexuals in Melbourne can’t stop a gig being moved to say a place like what they have.”
Past tense.
… echo … echo … echo …
Charter 77 : more pop tarts in punk drag methinks.
===
‘Us Against Them’ – FINAL FOUR
People with no hope are easy to control
That’s why we’ve gotta grab a dream
Hang on tight and not let go
If we’re going to survive
We’ve gotta keep the faith alive
And never let ’em break our spirits
No matter how hard they try
And if you stand up
I’ll stand with you
The time has come of us to do what we gotta do
‘Cause once again, it’s us against them
And it should come as no surprise
That eventually we’d realize
That once again, it’s us against them
What else is there really left to say?
It was bound to turn out this way
Now the time has come to fight the good fight
We’re gonna use our brains not violence
To win because we know it’s right
Now we have a chance to pave the way
To make our world a better place
We get to save the day
Don’t you dare push us around
‘Cause this time there’ll be no backing down
We’ve played by your rules for far too long
No matter what they take from us
We’ll get going when the going gets tough
That’s why in the end we’ll be standing strong
===
And they’ll be left with egg all over their faces, holding hands with the bones.
[Nikki: what the f are you talking about? — @ndy]
just about sums it up really. sorry its been a while between visits to your webshite.
anyway, in the words of another blood nut \”please explain\”:
the only bit of sense you\’ve written above was where you said i was stupid enuff to post on here using my \”real\” name. i should\’ve made up something like [blah] or [blah].
anyway, were you the bloke that came up to me in the pub and asked if i wrote on here?
\”lumpen\”: what a load of shit. fuck you too.
as for \”ss spandex\”, interesting thought experiment, but pointless. whats it meant to prove?
finally, last time i was at the birmy [blah] and [blah] (note, not their real names) kept putting some gay magazine in my bag. they thought it was funny cos i might catch gay off it. if the birmy really were a \”nazi\” pub, why the fuck would they have gay magazines?
g’day red.
inre charter 77’s status as “poptarts”, by this i mean:
by being happy to hop into bed with murderous neo-nazi fucking scum, and to support the only venue in melbourne which is happy to provide them with a platform (over a period of at least five years, if not longer), charter 77 ( and all the other scabs: http://birmyboycott.wordpress.com/scabs/ ) not only show complete and utter contempt for non-whites — and all the others who have been shot, stabbed and beaten by members of blood & honour & the hammerskins, including many real, not pretend, punks and skinheads — you also empty punk of any meaningful political content. this is especially galling given that yr band has stolen the name of an actual political movement, consisting of people with actual backbones:
===
Charter 77 in the Struggle for Human Rights and Civil Liberties
Policy Statement of the International Conference Project
“The appearance of Charter 77 on the political horizon of Czechoslovakia marked an essential dividing line in the development of the country after the defeat of the reformatory movement of 1968. It was a flash whose light elucidated the fact that history never ends and that it always remains open. The ideological orientation of Charter 77 – the principle of the indivisibility of liberty and the universal validity of human and civil rights which it professed was in itself a radical challenge to the totalitarian communist regime. Through the Charter, a new epoch of politics began, aimed at the re-establishment of civil society, democracy and legal order, based on the universal acceptance of human and civil rights. The idea of each citizen’s responsibility for the state of affairs, and the activities of Charter 77 ensuing from this principle constituted a distinctive moral revolution and lead to the constitution of the initial centers of civil society.
The Charter remains an evidence of the value of personal resolve – people became signatories of the Declaration of Charter 77 from January 1, 1977 mostly because of their own personal integrity; they said their “no” and “yes”, because they could not keep quiet in the face of the official lie. The Charter is thus the history of an act which was given birth by highly moral motives and which became a political act afterwards, since it was driven by the will not to wait for the times to change, but to do “here and now” what is right according to one’s conscience, to search for new ways of expression, and to extend the limits of what is possible.
It was also a social experience and the struggle of those who, by their signature on the charter, undertook to respect civil and human rights in their own country and internationally, acknowledging their responsibility for the state of affairs and [convinced] that civic involvement is worthwhile, and that it will contribute to the development of Czechoslovakia into a country where everyone could live and work as free people.
The Charter became a community of people, each of whom retained their own human and political integrity and outlook, their independence and moral responsibility. Each of the signatories brought their own personality and opinions, and their conception of what the Charter should or could be. The fact that the Charter never ceased to look for its identity, that it kept inquiring into its sense, searched, in often tormenting debates, how to fulfill its pledge, was given not only by the surrounding conditions, but also by the differences in notions of its signatories concerning the meaning of the Charter and possible means of its fulfillment. It was also a constant search for and finding consensus about a common way, and reassurance of mutual solidarity. Without the willingness to find consensus and without solidarity, it would not survive even the first year of its existence.”
http://www.charta2007.cz/index.php?lang=en
===
SOLIDARITY to you too, boofhead.
ps. the fact that the birmy has issues of bnews/mso (or whatever-the-fuck) means fuck-all. if anything, it simply means that the birmy is included by distributors on the list of the hundreds of venues that regularly receive copies of the street press. it certainly *doesn’t* mean — obviously — that the isd gig (and all the other neo-nazi gigs) never took place in its salubrious surroundings, or that b&h never met there, or that boneheads and other racist, fascist scum don’t regularly wet their whistle at gary’s shit-filled, semi-public house. besides which, the right reverend patrick o’sullivan — the convicted criminal, bonehead and birmy regular — is gay, so maybe it’s for his benefit?
my advice is for you to stop clutching at straws.
it’s fucking insulting.
pps. inre gays and nazis: you obviously know 4/5 of 3/4 of 2/3 of fuck-all about history as well as politics. (and i simply don’t believe that yr that fucking naive. what are you, a teenager?)
4/5 of 3/4 of 2/3 is the same as saying 2/5. which i guess is about half of 4/5 of fuck all. maths is not my strong suit though, so i could be wrong.
we aren\’t the first band to use the name charter 77 by the way. a mob from sweden beat us by about 15 years.
\”The Charter remains an evidence of the value of personal resolve – people became signatories of the Declaration of Charter 77 from January 1, 1977 mostly because of their own personal integrity.\”
not because someone told them to, or they thought it was cool, or \’cos all their mates were.
\”…you also empty punk of any meaningful political content.\”
by that do you mean to say we don\’t agree with your political views, so we\’re not punk?
we don\’t shout empty political slogans we don\’t understand. we don\’t toe anyone\’s party line. we always have and always will do whatever the fuck we want.
Red, I\’m not sure, but did you just compare (a) the integrity of bravely refusing to be told what to do by @ndy (i.e. boycott a nazi-friendly venue) over the Net with (b) people putting their names to a public document critical of the violently authoritarian regime in which they live?
it\’s in the constitution. it\’s the vibe of the thing.
the key words are personal integrity. it doesn\’t matter how said integrity is manifested.
however on the importance scales, i agree that not listening to andy\’s drivel is not quite in the same league. journey of a thousand miles, single step etc etc.
my main problem with the birmingham boycott is that it doesn\’t go far enuff. there\’s no point being half pregnant. any pub that has ever served a beer to anyone who goes to the birmy should also be boycotted. these neo-nazis have been known to drive cars. boycott all cars. which presents a problem \’cos i swear i\’ve seen a couple of these neo-nazis on a train once. boycott all public transport. they go to the football every now and again on their days off from hacking up asians with a chainsaw. boycott the footy (especially collingwood. they are the most supported team amongst neo nazis) and chainsaws. etc etc etc etc. follow it through to the obvious conclusion. it makes about as much sense as muslim fundamentalists.
I have to agree with Red. During a midweek visit to the Birmy I happened to notice a group of around half a dozen CFMEU members enjoying a drink there, proudly displaying their union shirts, they were even having a laugh and a joke with the publican. The rest of the patrons included a group of men who I’m guessing were Indian, one Maori sitting by himself, and the rest looked like everyday, average people having an after work beer (or two). So, far from being an infestation of white supremacy, I didn’t see any Nazis, no skinheads, not even any punks. True story. I will also back Red up by saying that if I were to stop going out to EVERY venue that I have seen Nazis drinking at, I may as well stay at home.
Wow, you’re a freaking genius!
g\’day, red! (hope you get to read this soon)
yeah, i guess you\’re right. firstly, (to digress) the grammar was shit because i\’m a useless drunkard. secondly, the thought experiment(s) was unconvincing and boring to read, sorry. any who, could you tell me why you used to spray paint swastikas at the carlton brewery squat and also expressed much irrational hatred towards non-whites around the same time (\’96)? further, could you tell why you wanted to kill my ex with a machete that you kept in your bag? don\’t worry, i have wanted to kill my ex, too. personally, i do like your \’fuck off\’ attitude, but i don\’t want to agree with the psychologists, many of whom are white anglo-saxon protestants (and middle-class american males!), that human beings are capable of both lying and committing irrational acts. prove me otherwise, please.
as for loudproudpunk, yes, non-whites do drink at the birmy, because the publican had told his bonehead mates not to cause trouble. why? because the he\’s running a business and needs the money! do you honestly think he\’s going to openly and proudly wave nazi flags and play hitler speeches from his venue that\’s in the center of a multi-culti community? wake up!
666,
mullets, not modal verbs!
p.s. don\’t worry, red, i\’m hated by everyone as well.
mmmmmmmmmmmm. your ideas are intreeging, and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
“i wish to subscribe to your newsletter.” crikey, someone told me to say that when you’re cornered by a dickhead on a soapbox, thanks. well, i take it you won’t answer the questions, but i guess it’s your right to refuse question time and to beat around the bloody bush. maybe we already know the answers, red (cuckoo!).
joke: how many chaos punks does it take to change a light bulb?
oh, just one, but he was rolled and stabbed by his loser mates when he pulled out his dole check. (not fussed if you delete this cheap bit, @ndy)
–ss spandex
lets see. back in 1996 i was in high school. and i was too busy playing footy on the weekend to be spray painting, hanging around squats, and threatening to carve people up with machetes. mistaken identity? as for the rest about psychologists and modal verbs and cuckoos, i\’ll read about it in the newsletter.
also that joke doesnt make any sense.
red:
They said you were a wit and they were half right.
LoudProudPunk:
The point.
You’ve missed it.
Hint:
Name another Melbourne pub that has happily hosted neo-Nazi gigs (the last one of which, on September 23 last year, was accompanied by a racist assault by a gang of the scum upon a lone woman) and meetings by groups (Blood & Honour Australia and the Southern Cross Hammerskins) which preach racial genocide, and happily enact it whenever and wherever possible — including, most recently, upon a number of REAL not faux punks such as yourself and red — and whose proprietor, Gary [surname removed], has continually — and for the past five years if not longer — LIED about it.
Loud and proud my white Anglo-Celtic working class arse.
SillyBillyTroll more like.
Hahahaha, that\’s what I love about anarchy, it\’s all free speech, and freedom of opinion until someone disagrees with one of you. Then it\’s a tirade of abuse and childish remarks. There\’s no point in abusing me @ndy, it won\’t get you anywhere.
I was merely pointing out to you that your \”boycott\” of the Birmingham hotel has been in the least, ineffective, and in reality I\’d say it\’s failed.
It\’s failed for a number of reasons, so let\’s explore these together.
In fact there are no less than four \”inner city / inner suburban\” licensed venues which have hosted Blood and Honour events over the past five years, so you\’re wrong to begin with. Certainly the Birmingham has been one of then, but it\’s by no means alone. Remember I have no reason to waste my time on here lying about such things, so it would seem as if YOU haven\’t done your homework.
Secondly, what on earth gives you the right to think you can tell other people how to live their lives? This includes what hotels they choose to visit.
You also have no right to abuse people because they don\’t do what you tell them, or because they choose to ignore a boycott put forward by somebody who remains unknown to the greater community.
The majority of people who drink there, and who have been for years, generally like Garry, and they are not going to stop frequenting his pub just because you tell them they are bad people for drinking there.
I\’m also interested as to why it\’s only punk bands that seem to cop it from you when they play there, because this year I\’ve seen a metal gig there, a couple of indie bands playing there, and even a guy doing some solo acoustic stuff. In fact I was having a drink there on a Saturday evening a few months back sharing a laugh with some friends about the \”Nazis\” playing music in the back room. The band sounded like Radiohead. So it seems there is an inherent bias in your blog.
In the words of late 90\’s punk outfit Fallout: \”Opinions may differ, and I have the right to my own\”.
Furthermore, I\’d say it\’s a 99% certainty that future Blood and Honour / right wing events won\’t be held at the Birmingham, so that leaves you with your next conundrum: finding out wherever it is they choose to hold their events. Personally I\’d say that to spend your life worrying over the existence of a bunch right wing extremists, in a city of over 2 million people, is maybe making a mountain out of a molehill. Extremists in all forms are always going to be around, and there\’s not much you, or I, or anybody can do about that. Some people would call you an extremist.
Why don\’t you find something a little more productive to do with your time, or get a hobby. I\’m sure something like online board games would suit you rather well.
Finally, the major reason your boycott has failed, is because most people think you\’re a twit.
sincerely sorry (blush), red. i was told that red, the chick, was playing in charter 77. before i go and eat my leather boot, does charter really have to play at the birmy?
–ss spastic
LoudProudPunk, Red, whoever, the point surely isn\’t to oppose \’extremism\’, but to oppose Nazism. It is true that Nazi and fascist groups such as Blood and Honour are socially and politically marginal in Australia at the moment. I\’d like it to stay that way. In part this marginality has been a result of the fact that people are actively opposed to any manifestations of such politics when they emerge, and in general that people are revolted by such politics, and that, as a consequence, to actively pursue such political agendas, to attempt to organise groups or actions in line with such agendas, has been not merely socially disapproved of, but ill-advised for the people concerned, who find themselves treated like scum. I would like this to continue. Their extreme marginality, and an active intolerance toward the politics such people wish to pursue, help to discourage people from following these losers down such paths. And honestly it doesn\’t seem that those who are being so harsh about Andy\’s anti-Birmy posts demonstrate any interest whatsoever in proposing any action of any sort whatsoever to attempt to contribute to the marginalisation of these creeps; indeed, it seems, they merely sneer at such concerns.
As to the idea that this is just some consumer boycott, I think that ignores the relation of politics to social space. And in fact historically anti-fascist struggles against Nazi control of social space, and against their ability to use social space to organise, have indeed had much to do with struggles over the abilty to use pubs and hotels as social and political meeting points – most notably and famously in the period immediately prior to the Nazi takeover in Germany, but also in many other times and places up until very recently, and even now. While the fascists here are too pathetic to put up much of a show at the moment, and we can debate the potential of strategies in the current period, historically fascists have very explicitly recognised the political value of access to, acceptance in and control of such spaces.
I distinctly remember walking by the Birmingham when I lived in the area and seeing a swastika in the window. Only later did I find out that this was because of an event to celebrate Hitler\’s birthday. As someone in at least four social categories which Nazis often say they want to kill, and sometimes do kill, I don\’t find anything about your responses persuasive. I don\’t find them to be serious or honest.
Oh dear.
My bad.
I apologise most profusely LoudProudPunk / LoudPseudonymousPoseur: I simply didn’t realise I was responding to such a delicate little flower; one for whom a single blog entry referring to him/her as a ‘fake punk’, a ‘silly billy’ and a ‘troll’, is not only enough to make him/her vewy upset, but in his/her opinion constitutes “a tirade of abuse”. If you need to, I advise you to ask Mummy and Daddy — or possibly Garry — to hold your hand during the following. Such are the dangers, I suppose, associated with reading anarchist blogs…
1) Not surprisingly, you labour under a number of misconceptions, two in particular; one being the concept and practice of freedom of speech, the other being the nature of anarchism. Your seemingly random references to ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘freedom of opinion’ (there’s a difference?) are just that; random, and irrelevant. They do suggest, however, that you believe, in some, not-terribly well-conceived manner, that there’s some kind of contradiction between the espousal of anarchism, on the one hand, and an expressed desire for a boycott of a fascist venue — in this case, The Birmy — on the other. As someone who, unlike yourself, actually knows what they’re talking about, I hate to inform you, but there is none. Further, in the past, anarchists have not just *said* nasty, horribly upsetting things about fascists; they’ve actually shot them dead (on which subject, more below).
2) You claim that, in the last five years, there have been “no less than four” inner city / inner suburban licensed venues which have hosted Blood and Honour events. If true, this suggests at least two things:
a) your knowledge of B&H and its recent history in Melbourne exceeds that of most, and is evidence of a certain degree of unhealthy intimacy, one which belies your already-obviously fraudulent claims to some form of political neutrality;
b) you’re far from being ab fab. In other words, I want names darling, names.
Of course, your unwillingness to provide any further details suggests two further things:
a) like your comrades in B&H, you’re not loud, and;
b) neither are you proud.
In any case, the supposed fact that there’s been another three venues for B&H ‘events’ in the last five years in Melbourne does not in any way, shape or form constitute a reason that the boycott of The Birmy has been ineffective.
This is self-evident.
3) “What on earth gives you the right to think you can tell other people how to live their lives? This includes what hotels they choose to visit.”
You’re one very confused little boy or girl.
Obviously, individuals are just as ‘free’ to drink or to play gigs at The Birmy as they are *not* to drink or to play gigs at The Birmy; my ‘right’ consists of the right to speak my mind, and in so doing to advance an argument as to why those who do not support neo-Nazism, in practice as well as in speech, should pursue the latter course of action. This is an argument which you do not acknowledge, for reasons which are painfully obvious.
4) “You also have no right to abuse people because they don’t do what you tell them, or because they choose to ignore a boycott put forward by somebody who remains unknown to the greater community.”
I have as much ‘right’ to abuse others as others do… whatever that may be. However, I certainly don’t think that calling someone a ‘fake punk’, a ‘silly-billy’, and a ‘troll’ is especially abusive — especially as you are, in fact as well as in speech, a fake punk, a silly-billy *and* a troll, one who attempts to justify, at length if not terribly coherently, scabby behaviour and the organisational activities of violent neo-Nazi organisations such as B&H and the SCHS.
5) “The majority of people who drink there, and who have been for years, generally like Garry, and they are not going to stop frequenting his pub just because you tell them they are bad people for drinking there.”
Not being one of them, I obviously don’t know what The Birmy’s regular patrons think of Garry, but you’re likely correct. It’s odd behaviour for someone to regularly frequent a pub if they don’t like the proprietor, after all; particularly in the absence of some other attraction, of which The Birmy has few (if any). More to the point, this is precisely why I’ve never argued otherwise, and have instead concentrated on informing punks and the other, occasional — not regular — drinkers at his shitty little establishment, that it should in fact be boycotted, and why. Further, I’ve said as much. And finally, like others, if The Birmy’s regulars choose to drink elsewhere in future, I’d advise them to do so on the basis that pub proprietors should be financially penalised, not rewarded, for providing neo-Nazis with a venue to organise and to celebrate their filthy ideology.
6) “I’m also interested as to why it’s only punk bands that seem to cop it from you when they play there, because this year I’ve seen a metal gig there, a couple of indie bands playing there, and even a guy doing some solo acoustic stuff. In fact I was having a drink there on a Saturday evening a few months back sharing a laugh with some friends about the ”Nazis” playing music in the back room. The band sounded like Radiohead. So it seems there is an inherent bias in your blog.”
A few reasons, I guess:
a) Generally speaking, punks don’t like neo-Nazis; especially neo-Nazi groups; especially neo-Nazi groups such as B&H and the Hammerskins, two groups responsible for assaulting and killing punks, skinheads, and a wide range of others (which is why punks have frequently fought with boneheads, and continue to do so);
b) With one exception, the only gigs I’ve been *aware* of have been punk gigs — and I only discovered the one exception, a noise gig, this week, via a discussion board in which The Birmy’s status as a neo-Nazi venue is also referred to (of which, more later);
c) The Birmy is a favoured venue of a number of punk bands with working-class pretensions (Charter 77, Marching Orders and Slick 46, to name three of the most prominent).
As you’re loud, proud, and have no reason, apparently, to lie, please feel free to provide further details of the metal, indie and solo acoustic gigs you’ve seen. Or are you confusing gigs with rehearsals? I know of only one band that continues to rehearse there: Mach Pelican. I wrote to them, but never received a reply… Again, please feel free to provide further details.
7) “In the words of late 90’s punk outfit Fallout: “Opinions may differ, and I have the right to my own”.”
In the words of Sam Newman: “You’re an idiot”.
Oh @ndy, the fun never ends it seems.
Firstly, I\’m glad to read your latest addition, it does show a little balance, better late than never I guess.
Secondly, pseudonymous supporter of Blood and Honour hahahaha I think not. I\’m just an average, everyday Joe Public, who actually doesn\’t think, or care that much, about politics, right or left, fascist or anarchist. The fact I know more than you probably tells me you really aren\’t very bright.
LoudPseudonymousPoseur? That\’s hypocrisy in the extreme right there, all this coming from someone [whose] sole existence is based upon slinging mud at people whilst hiding their identity.
Sorry buddy, but why would I want to help someone like you? I\’d only consider it if you meet me face to face. Seeing as that\’s unlikely to happen, I guess for you it\’s back to the drawing board.
Blood & Honour Australia / the Southern Cross Hammerskins (and their HQ in Melbourne, a/k/a The Birmingham Hotel) hahaha you really have lost it, haven\’t you? I bet any of the bands you named in your latest effort would be bemused to think they were in the HQ of those groups. And the significance of pointing out that one of the gigs was on April 20(!)? You\’d be surprised to find out that to most people, that date doesn\’t mean all that much, who knows, perhaps the organizers were English, and wanted to celebrate St.Georges Day? Or maybe they ARE part of the growing tide of fascism in our community? More like it they are just average people, who like myself, don\’t take someone like yourself very seriously.
You see @ndy, I\’ve had a bit of a read of your blog, and really, apart from a hell of a lot of cut and paste, there isn\’t a lot of intelligent thinking going on, so if you’ll allow me, ladies and gentlemen, some of the \’Wit and Wisdom\’ of @ndy:
Intelligence and immaturity all rolled up in a nice little package.
G’day Chuckles,
A glutton for punishment I see.
First, I asked you to name the other B&H venues in Melbourne, as well as the other bands that’ve performed at The Birmy. You’ve done neither, on the basis that “why would I want to help someone like you? I’d only consider it if you meet me face to face. Seeing as that’s unlikely to happen, I guess for you it’s back to the drawing board.” In other words, like B&H itself, you’re full of piss and wind.
Secondly, while I’m happy to concede that you’re a VerboseNobody, your supposed knowledge of the four other venues B&H have utilised as eventspaces in Melbourne over the course of the last five years tends to undermine your own claims to being “just an average, everyday Joe Public”. As you and I both know, and as they themselves happily admit, the location of B&H and Hammerskins events are not, in fact, publically promoted. Such was the case for the 2006 ‘Ian Stuart is Fat, Round, and Six Feet Underground’ Celebration @ The Birmy, just as it was for previous celebrations @ The Jam Tin (and every other event these mobs have organised). The reason for this desire for secrecy, on the other hand, is obvious: they fear disruption (and that’s simply the price you pay for being neo-Nazi scum).
You further claim that “The fact I know more than you probably tells me you really aren’t very bright”.
Au contraire my loud, proud, but-no-I’m-not-going-to-tell-you-my-name friend:
What this supposed fact denotes is — as I’ve already suggested — that you’ve a close relationship with the scum in question; which fact tends to render your claim that you’re just an average member of the public who happened, for some reason, to stumbleupon my blog, a pointless and threadbare excuse made by someone who is most committed to defending The Birmy’s practice of booking precisely the scum you are obviously already more-than-friendly with.
Thirdly, you claim that my dubbing thee Sir LoudPseudonymousPoseur is hypocritical. In fact, a case of extreme hypocrisy on my part. But the simple fact is that I am indeed a slackbastard named Andy, I live in Melbourne, and I’ve been active as an anarchist for many years. Or as The Great, Pseudonymous (Wo)Man Him/Herself once said: “Sorry buddy, but why would I want to help someone like you?”
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=407
Further, my “sole existence” — by which I take it you mean my sole reason for being — is hardly “based upon slinging mud at people whilst hiding their [ie, my] identity”; unless, perhaps, you mean I sometimes expose, here and elsewhere, both as an individual and as a member of a collective effort, the activities of fascists which they would rather stay hidden. (See, for example: http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=681 ; http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=667 ; http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=531 ; http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=392 ; etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.)
And as for “slinging mud”, you’re as full of shit as your mate Gar(r)y, Mr/Mrs/Ms Loud&Proud (sic).
Fourthly, in answer to your question, “And the significance of pointing out that one of the gigs was on April 20(!)?” As far as I’m aware, it’s not terribly significant at all; merely a coincidence. (April 20 is the incestuous Austrian coprophiliac dicktator’s birthday.)
Finally, the bits you’ve read of my blog are as extensive as your knowledge of anarchist anti-fascism is deep. Nevertheless, I’m happy to point out the shallowness of your lazy, half-arsed critique (one compounded by your non-response to lumpnboy’s more conciliatory gestures).
a) “I simply don’t believe that yr that fucking naive. What are you, a teenager?”
A comment made in response to red’s apparent ignorance of the long and illustrious line of gay fascists.
b) “I have as much ‘right’ to abuse others as others do…”
A response to your seeming incredulity at my having having named you a silly-billy.
c) “SOLIDARITY to you too, boofhead.”
Yes, ‘boofhead’ is a very harsh term, isn’t it, diddums?
d) “Fuckwit or not, it’s a simple fucking q. & if you can’t answer it, yr the fuckwit.”
Again, a response to red’s having labelled me a ‘fuckwit’ (“by the way, last year i called a boycott on being a fuckwit. since then you have continued to be a fuckwit, so you are a scab.”). Hurr hurr.
e) “Loud and proud my white Anglo-Celtic working class arse.”
A problem for you? I repeat: kiss my white Anglo-Celtic working class arse.
f) “If you need to, I advise you to ask Mummy and Daddy to hold your hand.”
Or Gar(r)y.
(You’ll need to raise your head from his lap first but.)
Well well well, and on it goes…
The two of us could go on battling wits forever @ndy, so I\’ll make this my last post.
Firstly, I said I didn\’t think you were terribly bright, and I guess you\’ve proved me correct. So when I tell you that I have no interest in politics, [of] whatever kind, it\’s the truth. I have better things to do with my time.
You see, I just don\’t think you understand that people are people, and fascists, and communists, in fact extremists of all kinds, are always going to exist, because you can\’t change the way some people think, no matter what you do. Of course you do have the option of removing the people [whose] opinions you disagree with from society, but ask yourself, would you really kill someone for their beliefs? If the answer to that is yes, then you need help, and perhaps it would be better for society if you went and got some.
Now you may think of me as a bad person for the way I think, but that\’s ok, I can live with it.
I may have made a mistake by suggesting your entire blog was constructed under a pseudonym, as I thought it was. So if your name really is @ndy, then I was wrong.
I also made a mistake by thinking you were just another left-wing layabout, and I guess running a printing shop does qualify you as working class.
I haven\’t replied to lumpnboy because I\’m more interested [in] you. Simple as that.
If you didn\’t like my tongue-in-cheek humour you need to lighten up a bit, no need to take things so seriously.
From an outsider\’s perspective you are your own worst enemy. That\’s why I don\’t take people like you seriously, neither do most of the public.
Remember @ndy, life is but a game. This game has been played, and you have lost. Ciao.
So LoudProudPunk, how did you enjoy your brief foray into public relations?
Tough game eh?
Here’s the thing: you began by claiming that ‘red was right’, and that “far from being an infestation of white supremacy”, The Birmy was Just Another Pub, populated by Otherwise Decent, Law-Abiding, Average Joes (CFMEU members, Indians, Maoris etcetera) engaged in Average, Properly Non-Extremist Activities; like drinking beer, and chatting amicably with the publican.
In other words — deliberately I expect — you missed the point. And if not deliberately, then accidentally, as in the manner of a drunken boor who interrupts other people’s conversations, loudly asserts his/her opinion, then shuffles off in search of more alcohol — or, alternatively, to collapse, wet-pantsed, in a corner. Either way, as someone whose contribution is unlikely to be missed, and whose memory (if they’re remembered at all) is marked by the pronounced rolling of eyes…
And what was your point?
Oh yes: “I will also back Red up by saying that if I were to stop going out to EVERY venue that I have seen Nazis drinking at, I may as well stay at home.”
Which is all well and good. Neither knowing you nor caring to, I honestly couldn’t care less where you drink, what you drink, or with whom. On the other hand, it doesn’t address the issue, which is:
THE FACT THAT ON SEPTEMBER 23RD 2006, THE BIRMINGHAM HOTEL (THE BIRMY) PLAYED HOST TO THE ANNUAL ‘IAN STUART DONALDSON MEMORIAL GIG’, HOSTED BY TWO NEO-NAZI ORGANISATIONS, ‘BLOOD & HONOUR AUSTRALIA’ and the ‘SOUTHERN CROSS HAMMERSKINS’.
Further:
1) THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THE BIRMINGHAM HOTEL HAS HOSTED THIS GIG;
2) NOR IS IT THE ONLY GIG ORGANISED BY THESE TWO GROUPS WHICH THE BIRMY HAS PLAYED HOST TO;
3) NOR IS IT THE ONLY TYPE OF EVENT THESE TWO GROUPS HAVE ORGANISED AT THE BIRMY.
The only person who disputes these facts is Gary, The Friendly, Neo-Nazi, Agnostic Front-Loving, LYING Publican.
In short, this shit’s been going on, unopposed, for years, and it’s time that it stopped. Logically, the next question is: how? Before addressing that question, however, a few more observations regarding your contribution to this thread:
While attempting to position yourself as The Sensible Voice of the Average Punter, you claim that — UNlike The (Mythical) Average Punter — you somehow happen to know that “[i]n fact there are no less than four “inner city / inner suburban” licensed venues which have hosted Blood and Honour events over the past five years”. But when asked, you refuse to name them, just as you refuse to disclose how you — as The Mythical Voice of the Average Punter — happen to know this rather esoteric fact. Instead, you claim that because you (apparently) know this and I (apparently) don’t, you’re like, smart, and I’m like, bad @ homework. You thus try and convert what is ostensibly a discussion regarding The Birmy’s status as a venue for fascists into some kind of bizarre pissing contest.
In your second comment, you also claim that in your first comment you were “merely pointing out” that my (sic) boycott of The Birmy has failed; which is quite odd, given that you make no reference to the boycott, and instead rather weakly claim that The Birmy is just another pub like any other. In any case, I regard the campaign for a boycott of the pub, much to your chagrin, as a modest success, and for the following reasons:
1) in every online conversation that I’m aware of, whether in relation to gigs at The Birmy, or merely its status as a desirable drinking establishment, the issue of a boycott and the political complexion of the pub and its proprietor is almost invariably an issue;
2) within the local music industry, and within local punk circles in particular, there is a raised awareness of the fact that for at least five years (if not longer), The Birmy has happily hosted gigs by groups that routinely and systematically assault and murder punks, anarchists and many more besides; in addition, the fact that a boycott of the pub has been called for has received wide circulation;
3) as a result, every single punk gig at The Birmy now has a certain air of undesirability surrounding it, and whether or not individuals support the idea of a boycott or not, there’s a real possibility of being labeled a scab act for playing at the venue.
This is obviously in addition to the small amount of press coverage the ISD gig received at the time, as well as the small protest outside the pub that followed shortly thereafter, as well as the pub’s profile as a fascist venue being raised in the local council, within left-wing, trade union, artistic and musical circles, and within numerous other groups and networks (ethnic, feminist, indigenous) besides.
But of course, not being interested in ‘politics’, you don’t care, right? Certainly not enough to voice your narrow-minded opinion eh?
Finally.
===
“You see, I just don’t think you understand that people are people, and fascists, and communists, in fact extremists of all kinds, are always going to exist, because you can’t change the way some people think, no matter what you do. Of course you do have the option of removing the people [whose] opinions you disagree with from society, but ask yourself, would you really kill someone for their beliefs? If the answer to that is yes, then you need help, and perhaps it would be better for society if you went and got some.”
===
Shit man, you’re a real thinker aren’t you: ‘people are people’; ‘you can’t change the way people think’; murder’s not nice, sheep say baa and cows say moo.
Punk as fuck.
But no, you’re right: I don’t think in mindless platitudes. Nor do I find it anything much other than tedious when some anonymous smartarse attempts to pathologise me when they run out of anything even remotely intelligent to say. It’s an old trick, one as boring, predictable — and plainly stupid — as you are; wrapped, as you are, in self-indulgent privilege, pathetic smugness, and smarmy and awfully ill-conceived self-confidence in your mediocre intellect.
“You’re not a punk, so just stop tryin’
Your clothes are good, but your brain is dyin’
You’re an embarrassment to what we believe
Just take your complacency and — leave”
http://www.spermbirds.de/
PS. Fallout weren’t late 90s. Their first EP, ‘What Have We Become?’, was released in ’95.
The Corrections.
“Secondly, while I’m happy to concede that you’re a VerboseNobody, your supposed knowledge of the four other venues B&H have utilised as eventspaces in Melbourne over the course of the last five years…”
Make that:
“Secondly, while I’m happy to concede that you’re a VerboseNobody, your supposed knowledge of the THREE other venues B&H have utilised as eventspaces in Melbourne over the course of the last five years…” In addition to The Birmy, and in seeming exclusion of The Jam Tin (Cheltenham).
“A response to your seeming incredulity at my having having named you a silly-billy.”
Make that:
“A response to your seeming incredulity at my having named you a silly-billy.”
to loudproudpunk,
yes, there are extremists on either end, and their misinformed ways can cause a lot of problems, e.g., i was falsely accused by an individual from one side of the political spectrum that made me mentally and emotionally messy for a couple of years. it’s one of the reasons why i don’t live in peter allen’s oz.
apart from the nonsense, if you have any information about the b&h/schs blokes who assaulted that women after a nazi gig at the birmy, contact a community group, a legal network, or even the cops. if you have any info about their next gig, then please help. i’m sure it worries you as much as it worries everyone else that nazi cowards believe it’s their right to traumatize innocent people, many of whom aren’t involved in politics.
oddly enough, it’s interesting that neo-nazis should preach that they have the right to freedom speech. in nazi germany, if you weren’t apolitical, and you were critical of the government, you’d get the guillotine. in 2002 my friend and i encountered drunken male bonding (repressed) boneheads at the birmy. one of them said to my mate that he hated his anarchist top and another one pushed him halfway across the room. freedom of speech or the freedom to act like an arsehole? to me, it was an unprovoked attack and a good enough reason to boycott the birmy, and i’m sure you know why the arthouse has a ban on i-heart-hitler thugs. in addition, i can’t say i’ve met a leftwing punk who has gone around beating up people for being a “Communist”, a queer, a nigger, a kike, etc. can you?
to shit stir, melbourne’s population is 3.7 mill, not 2 mill as stated in your statistical report. i could be wrong since i don’t always check my facts.
–ss spandex
Geeze… I have never seen Andy so worked up over such small things. Maybe, just maybe, Ol’ Andy should take up cooking as a weekend hobby, because it seems Anarchism is screwing with his mind.
…oh, yeah, aren’t you a Multiculturalist, if I recall?
Are you trying to imply something about my cooking Mick?
Mmm… baingan bartha…
Is that multicultural enough for you?
In these situation lines seem to be drawn and, as is the way of men on the internet, there’s much posturing which causes positions to be cemented.
Red et al: What is your position, exactly? Is it the Birmingham doesn’t support fascist gigs? Is it that supporting fascist gigs isn’t the same as promoting fascism? The reason why your analogy with public transport etc doesn’t work is because it isn’t remotely the same as Gary’s actions. When Connex have swastikas hanging from their carriages on Hitler’s birthday or CUB put out an Ian Stewart Memorial Brew, then we can start talking. You know the difference between ethical consumerism and a boycott, right?
Again I point to my earlier post: Red, I am directly accusing you of supporting fascist activities because you are too cowardly to do otherwise. In other words, I don’t think you’re a fascist, I think you’re the kind of piss-weak poseur who plays idly because you’re too scared to stand up to the enemy of solidarity and democracy, so you focus on your critics instead. You can say “fuck you” all you like (oh no: abuse!), but the charge stands. You can care or not whether you are seen as a coward. If it were me, I’d want to disprove it with more than “fuck yous”.
If, as Red seems to think, fascist gigs at the Birmy are natural, benign occurrences like the weather, then of course they’re meaningless. However, I’d encourage Red to consider that maybe, in the context of the Holocaust and the ongoing murders by B&H, these are conscious actions with meaning, and to support them is unacceptable. It’s kind of weird that you would see having “gay mags” as a sign of support but having fascist events as completely neutral. Or a maori drinking there cancelling out a Hitler Birthday Party.
If statements like “I don’t give a shit about politics” are met with incredulity by us extremists (arghh, more abuse!), it’s because it’s a blatant contradiction of immediate actions and the forum in which it’s being said; what you are doing is political. When you talk about the relative worth or value of a strategy (like boycotting the Birmingham and the bands that play there, all in response to fascist activities), that is being political. You may not have a flag to wave or an armband to wear (although I suspect if you did it would be coloured beige), but you are making political choices.
Surprise, surprise: I agree with @ndy. I am satisfied that whenever the bands that play at the Birmy are mentioned, so is their support for fascists. Not a perfect outcome but a heartening measure of the music scene in Melbourne.
Maybe I’m giving Red and the like too much credit, but I truly do not understand what they are saying, if anything at all. Maybe I am yet to comprehend the politics of the militantly inert.
PS @ndy: the verification system sucks.
i dont support right wing shows. that is i’ve never been to one. i dont have a problem with them though. i dont have a problem with left wing shows either. i honestly dont understand how some right wing bands playing at a venue on one night means the venue is the “home of fascism”.
if i was running a fascist venue, for a start i wouldnt allow any gay magazines in the place. and if i found out a gay magazine had used the guard outside the shrine on its front cover without his permission, i would organise reprisals. i would ban gays or lesbians or drug users, or blacks or asians or any other non-whites. i wouldnt allow left leaning bands to play in the back room, or allow any of their groups to have functions there. i would get skinheads to run the security and ensure the “right” people got in, and the rest were “persuaded” never to return. and thats just off the top of my head.
if my band played on the same bill as one of these right wing bands, then you could say we supported them. but we dont.
to me the far left (i include anarchists in this) are very similar to the far right. i dont see much difference between a b&h show and a anarchist/vegan/animal liberation benefit show. except the people of course.
if we were offered a show with a mixed bill that included right wing AND left wing bands, we would probly play it. i think sydney is more likely to be able to organise such a show though.
finally the verification system is a load of shit.
quickly:
“i honestly dont understand how some right wing bands playing at a venue on one night means the venue is the “home of fascism”.”
i hate to shout, but yr obviously extremely hard of hearing:
===
…ON SEPTEMBER 23RD 2006, THE BIRMINGHAM HOTEL (THE BIRMY) PLAYED HOST TO THE ANNUAL ‘IAN STUART DONALDSON MEMORIAL GIG’, HOSTED BY TWO NEO-NAZI ORGANISATIONS, ‘BLOOD & HONOUR AUSTRALIA’ and the ‘SOUTHERN CROSS HAMMERSKINS’.
Further:
1) THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THE BIRMINGHAM HOTEL HAS HOSTED THIS GIG;
2) NOR IS IT THE ONLY GIG ORGANISED BY THESE TWO GROUPS WHICH THE BIRMY HAS PLAYED HOST TO;
3) NOR IS IT THE ONLY TYPE OF EVENT THESE TWO GROUPS HAVE ORGANISED AT THE BIRMY.
===
in addition:
MEMBERS OF BLOOD & HONOUR, THE HAMMERSKINS, AND OTHER NEO-NAZI GROUPS ROUTINELY *ASSAULT* AND SOMETIMES *KILL* PUNKS AND SKINHEADS.
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=309
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=281
on the 2004 isd gig:
===
“Next was the band that we had all been waiting to see and we weren’t disappointed!! The Bully Boys!! They played an awesome set, with tunes like ‘Jigrun’ and ‘Fire Up the Ovens’. A few of the lads had gotten hold of some Jew[’]s yarmulke and took a light to it and handed it to Scott while he was singing ‘Six Million More’! Seeing that burn to the tune of that song was brilliant. What a showman!”
===
“if my band played on the same bill as one of these right wing bands, then you could say we supported them. but we dont.”
charter 77 has played on the same bill as blood red eagle. so by yr logic i can safely say you support them.
more later…
more and later.
inre the birmy’s status as a ‘fascist venue’:
1) in addition to the above-named gigS — plural, not singular — a number of people have claimed to have been refused service @ the bar, allegedly ‘cos they weren’t white enough for gar(r)y’s tastes;
2) it’s a known hangout for boneheads, including but not limited to notorious local boneheads like patrick o’sullivan (convicted of stabbing a fellow bonehead a coupla yrs ago & sentenced to a coupla yrs jail), and, formerly, dane sweetman (convicted axe murderer & rapist, released maybe 18 mths ago); & is known as such by members of the local community, traders, council, & police — but not, it seems, sweet little innocent red;
3) as you & i both know, yr band, charter 77, was approached five yrs ago, in 2002, inre this issue, prompted by the birmy’s then-recent hosting of a number of *other* neo-nazi gigs — including one to celebrate uncle adolf’s birthday. so, “some right wing bands playing at a venue on one night” my arse! then, as now, you informed others who appealed for yr solidarity — ‘cos, like, yr ‘punk’ — to go fuck themselves, and stated that yr loyalties were first & foremost to gar(r)y, his pub, & his profits (& fuck everybody & everything else, presumably).
nothing’s changed, only yr excuses have become more pathetic.
3) we’re not talking about a bunch of dumb-arse right-wing schmucks here red (eg, the young liberals). we’re talking about organised neo-nazi groups with a long history of violent opposition to not only punx & skinz, but asians, blacks, jews, the homeless, people with disabilities, gays, lesbians, anarchists, leftists, unionists and more besides. thus:
last yr in antwerp, belgium, a member of b&h shot two people to death, a (pregnant) black woman & a white baby, before turning the gun on himself, http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=385 (includes a photo of the two folks whose graves you piss on) ;
the same, flanders branch of the network was busted by belgian police for est an arms cache and allegedly planning some kinda violent campaign ;
in april of this yr, two members of the tampa, florida branch of b&h were convicted of beating to death two homeless men as part of the group’s initiation ritual, http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=681 ;
b&h is banned in both germany & spain, & moves are also afoot in holland to institute a ban against the branch there, http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=650 ;
incidentally, b&h is closely connected to both the (largely now defunct) neo-nazi network combat 18 & redwatch (on redwatch poland, see, eg, http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=341 ; on redwatch uk, http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=326 ; on c18 in germany, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3220563.stm ; on c18 generally, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/323366.stm ; http://www.blackstarreview.com/rev-0112.html ; http://www.searchlight.org.uk/o-hara/combat18.html )
( oh, and c18 was also involved in sectarian violence in northern ireland, providing funding to loyalist paramilitaries — http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3220563.stm — of the sort bulldog spirit thinks is really, like, funny, http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=628 )
i’d provide links to info inre hammerskins, but i’m not sure there’d be any point.
4) “to me the far left (i include anarchists in this) are very similar to the far right. i dont see much difference between a b&h show and a anarchist/vegan/animal liberation benefit show. except the people of course.”
speaks volumes.
anarchist/vegan/animal lib = neo-nazi.
further commentary is superfluous.
5) “if we were offered a show with a mixed bill that included right wing AND left wing bands, we would prob[ab]ly play it. i think sydney is more likely to be able to organise such a show though.”
which, in addition to having given birth to collingwood, is one of the few reasons why i’m proud to be melbourne born & bred. (& why i wish that all the poseurs would fuck off (back) to canberra or sydney or wagga wagga!)
who else was on the bill for the show we played with blood red eagle? please list all of them, giving note to whether they are left, right, or non-political. you know what i meant.
the birmingham hotel is not blood and honour. it is not the southern cross hammerskins. it is a pub. as long as you can pay for your drink, dont smash the place up, dont shoot up in the dunnies, and go home at closing time, you can drink there. i have never seen anyone refused for \”racial\” reasons. i have seen people refused for being too fucked up (alcohol/drugs), not having money, getting violent etc etc.
as i have said earlier, the birmingham is a known hang out for a lot of different people.
the far left does not \”=\” the far right. but they do have a very similar outlook.
i dont see why me not changing my mind over the last five years has anything to do with anything. i dont pledge allegiance to garry or the pub. nor do i work for them. if someone offers us a gig there, we will probly play it. just as we would at any other pub in town.
you said:
youre right. all the above info on b&h and c18 is irrelevant. and is freely available to anyone who knows how to use google. does garry work for any of these groups? or does he work for the owners of the pub?
why wouldnt you be proud of being from Melbourne?
I repeat. You wrote “if my band played on the same bill as one of these right wing bands, then you could say we supported them. but we dont.” Fact: your band DID play on the same bill as BLOOD RED EAGLE (BRE), a neo-Nazi band from Newcastle, NSW. BRE played at the ISD gig last year (September 2006), and most recently (April 2007) played in Wellington, at the Satan’s Slaves MC clubhouse, at the invitation of the NZ Hammerskins.
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=676
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=674
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=673
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=669
I can therefore say that Charter 77 supported ‘them’.
As for the other bands, these were listed on your website, which is now defunct. However, before your decision to close it down, I took note of the fact that “Blood Red Eagle have played with Blasting Process, Changeover… Creeping Jesus, Demolition Highstyle, Exhibit A, Out of Order, Thoughtcrime, Unclean and World War XXIV”. This — as far as I can recall — was at a gig in Sydney sometime in the last few years. As far as I’m aware, none of these bands are still gigging (could be wrong but).
I’m well aware of the fact that The Birmy isn’t B&H or the Hammerskins, and if my argument depended on that being the case, you’d have a point. It doesn’t and you don’t. As for refusal of service, that’s simply what a number of other people have alleged. (Look it was simple as this. “can i have a glass of water?” (i was playing a gig) “what are you doing here?” “i’m playing a show in the band room” “No. what are YOU doing in HERE” “Um…” “No you can’t have a glass of water” Jem walks off confused and upset. Then my mate just went and got one for me. He’s white, unwashed and wears pyjamas to the pub.)
“as i have said earlier, the birmingham is a known hang out for a lot of different people.”
Yeah. And it’s only the neo-Nazi fucking scum I and others have a problem with.
“the far left does not ”=” the far right. but they do have a very similar outlook.”
Stop trying to shift the goalposts.
I don’t care what you think may or may not be elements common to whatever you happen to think constitutes a ‘far left’ or ‘far right’ political perspective. The subject of discussion is not the virtues (or otherwise) of either tendency; what IS being discussed is the use of a pub, The Birmy, over a period of at least FIVE YEARS, if not longer, by two VIOLENT, CRIMINAL, NEO-NAZI ASSOCIATIONS. Blood & Honour is not a debating society for fuck’s sake, but an international network of boneheads who see their role as being to preserve the political legacy of Ian Stuart Donaldson (1957–1993), in part by maintaining the presence of fascist and white supremacist views within the music industry, and by seeking to recruit young white men on that basis. Established in the UK in 1987 following the demise of another group called White Noise, the Australian branch of B&H was established soon after, and is, in fact, the first such branch to have been established outside of the UK. The Hammerskins, on the other hand, were until recently probably the premiere bonehead cult; this one, however, having first been established in the US, and again spreading to Australia (via Europe I believe) soon after. Members of both associations have assaulted and even murdered PUNKS AND SKINHEADS.
And you call yourself a punk?!?
I provided the info I did so you couldn’t plead ignorance. I mean, I thought maybe calling your band ‘a bunch of pop tarts in punk drag’ was slightly cheeky, but the more you write, the more I’m beginning to think it’s an all-too accurate description, and you really DON’T have the vaguest fucking clue about punk culture, punk politics, or punk history.
“i dont see why me not changing my mind over the last five years has anything to do with anything.”
It’s an important point because you keep trying to frame the question of a boycott of The Birmy — and why scabbing on it is in fact Neat Neat Neat — in terms of weak complaints about ‘one gig by one group of right-wingers’; moreover, a group, you assert, which has its near-equivalent in the form of people who try to raise money via benefit gigs for the purposes (for example) of saving animals from torture!
Are you serious?!?
Such unchanging sentiments on Your part also points to You and Your Band having a deep commitment to preserving The Birmy as a place for You and Your Band to play, and that You place You and Your Band ahead of every other consideration. But punk isn’t all about You and Your Band. Punk’s about Lin “Spit” Newborn and Dan Shersty, Timur Kacharava and Aleksandr “Shtopor” Ryukhin, Tomek Wilkoszewski and Augustin Kraus, and many more besides.
You gotta short memory.
I don’t.
“SHARP [Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice], and more importantly the SHARP attitude, has had a massive influence on Skinhead culture. Remember how it used to be back in the eighties when the Boneheads nearly strangled the cult. Remember how kids thought to be a Skinhead you had to be a Nazi. If it wasn’t for SHARP and other groups like AFA, ARA, RASH and all the rest we would be swimming in a sea of swastikas by now. Don’t listen to all the shit about splits and politics, the Boneheads go on about it because they know how we drove them underground and reclaimed Skinhead culture for true Skinheads. The non-politicals go on about it because it’s easier than taking on the scum. I’ve been a Skinhead since 1969 and I know what it’s meant since day one.” — Roddy Moreno, The Oppressed
PS.
Sleeping With The Enemy – THE OPPRESSED
(from: Skinhead Times – 1982/1998 CD)
We thought you were one of us
We really thought you had the suss
But all your talk of skinhead pride
Meant nothing when the skinhead died
You’re sleeping with the enemy
People think we’re all the same
It’s you who put us in the frame
Your apathy is full of shit
You made your bed you better lie in it
There’s one thing that makes me sick
It’s when you cry non-politic
If you won’t face reality
You’re sleeping with the enemy